Proprosal: CALGUNS OLL LEGAL FUND

[50 Freak]

Wow, just reading that story about the OLL bust gave me willies. I am just imagining driving home from Metcalf with my REGISTERED AW's or OLL and going through the same crap.

We may know we're innocent, but the fact of the matter is, not all of us have the dough to prove that we are. And that is what this country has come to. It's not innocent until proven guilty...it's more do you have the money to prove your innocent, otherwise we'll sweat you till you plead guilty or drag you through the legal arena.

What I propose here is a small legal fund for anyone caught with a OLL and needs money to fight a Legal battle. Someone here (who we all trust) can open a bank account and everyone who wishes to can put in $25 into this fund. If someone gets busted, we put a poll up and the people who have donated money can determine if we give the "lowlife perp " an interest free loan to fight in court.

What do you all think?

[bwiese]

That's nice but we have to think of things first.

Who's more "deserving" of support, with limited funds? Who controls the purse strings? What about a borderline issue where the dude was being stupid and too close to the edge?

There are already 2 OLL AW busts in OC (by the same deputy). There is another pending AW case in Santa Clara County (likely dismissed soon for other reasons, let's not chat about it right now).

And - to be honest - SPG's issues were apparently (correct me if i'm wrong) triggered by his family, first and foremost. The family member starting the whole ruckus really bears some financial responsibility even if that's an uncomfortable thing to say...

Weight should perhaps be thrown against good cases without other much other coloration (say, other crimes alleged, drugs, etc.)

The other issue is 'donor fatigue' - early folks get $$ support, but later cases - ones that may in fact be more worthy of support - run into a brick wall due to "I've done my share" sentiments.

And do we restrict support to NRA members? Calguns members?

We do need to do this, but I feel Calif NRA, and perhaps the lawyers with whom it coordinates wit should have some input on this, otherwise we can alienate some folks, perhaps support the 'wrong' cases, etc.

Let's put some thought into this.

[thmpr]

I am willing to cough up a few bills on this. But Bill is correct on his concerns. Who will take lead on this? Moderators?

[Fjold]

Also remember if the money goes in a bank, the money is taxable as income for whomever possesses it.

[50 Freak]

I say this is open to everyone, not just Calguns members. But the stipulation is that the money is to be use for OLL legal defense and only for the defense of contributers. And we as a group have to vote on what is a "good cause" with majority rule (vote is only of the contributers, as it is their money).

Finding someone to manage the money is the hard part. Who do we use, do we start a non-profit legal fund, do we charge say 1% interest on the money lent to cover fees, etc?

I know there are details to be ironed out, but that can be worked on later. First I'd like to know if there is enough interest. After all, a legal fund of a few hundred bucks is nothing. But a legal fund of a few thousand is something that will be of use to our members.

[Spawn_X]

I say we wait until another case happens and go from there..

[jester]

Also remember if the money goes in a bank, the money is taxable as income for whomever possesses it.

Couldn't it be set up as a 501(C)3 tax free acct?

[Scarecrow Repair]

Donate on demand, not ahead of time

What if there are no OLL busts within, say, a year ... do we refund the money? throw a bbq? and what would be the limit? 1 year? 5 years?

Who controls the account? What if they get hit by a bus, or end up in a divorce? You'd have to make it a non-profit to avoid problems with those, and that sounds like a good mess to avoid.

Better to wait for it to happen, then all the voting takes place automatically as each person makes up their own mind on how much to send, if any. Trying a vote after money has been given is just asking for nasty arguments -- majority vote? release a percentage based on the vote ratio? ratio of heads or money given? Any kind of vote will not be anonymous, and secret ballot is the best way to handle votes.

An account ahead of time has the advantage that people can donate as they have funds, but if the account builds up nicely and then sits unused for a while, people will be inclined to stop donating. And people who have already donated won't be inclined to add more until everyone has.

[50 Freak]

All good points everyone. Let's just say the money stays in the bank until the day the DOJ lists.

If that ever happens, the money can be refunded or a BBQ/Shoot prepared by Hooters is my recommendation.

Let's not get too much into the details yet, lets just gauge interest and see what kind of dollars we can raise.

[AJAX22]

I'd be interested in being part of some kind of CA firearm legal defense fund. you'd probably have to form a non proffit organization specifically to adress this, which is a hassle and alot of paperwork to deal with. unless you can find an existing non proffit which can manage the funds.

[stealthmode]

you should contact an attorney on the proper way to set a legal fund up, chuch michael is a firearms lawyer near los angeles and OC that is mentioned on calguns sometimes so maybe a call to him. I would donate a couple bucks if I knew a fund was set up properly.

[rssslvr]

I think this is a good idea if done right.I would be willing to donate to the fund.

[50 Freak]

Hopefully if we get enough money together and a good case comes about. We can make a good issue out of that case and force the issue with the courts.

[TonyNorCal]

I agree with some of the above posters...

Sounds like a good idea in theory. Of course, it would need to be set up properly. I wouldn't be comfortable with just a select few people deciding how they money is disbursed and who's worthy. Your idea of having the membership vote sounds promising. Of course, the control aspect of this needs to be thought through carefully.

[50 Freak]

Guys, as individuals gun owners in CA, we get all the crap piled on us. Plus we have to constantly worry about getting railroaded into jail or something like that. Despite our best attempts at staying legal.

The whole idea about this legal fund is so we can band together and protect ourselves. Look what happened late 2005. A few of us started a landslide and next thing we know a ton of us forced down the throat of the DOJ and the Anti's 30,000 ARs and AK receivers.

Now we've created a political mine field for those Anti's that claimed their BS laws have made an impact on the crime rates in CA.

Now let band together again and establish something where we can be sure that we can fight the anti's at their own game.

On the vote, lets just say it's $25 incriments. Somebody who donates $250 bucks will have 5 times more voting power than someone who donates $25. Ultimately we all gain, but the more you donate, the more "voice" you have in deciding where the money goes.

Together we can be a legal power to be reckoned with, Individually we will hang by ourselves.

Again I repeat: DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE SETUP, I'M SURE THERE ARE MANY AMONG US THAT CAN WITH THAT MATTER. LET'S JUST SEE HOW MANY ARE INTERESTED.

Can someone here show me how to start a poll?