When was it legal to home build a semi auto handgun and leave it unregistered?

[snapsound]

How long ago would I have to go back to where it was legal in CA to home build a semi-auto handgun and leave it unregistered?

I'm thinking it might be pre gun-roster (2000?) but not sure.

If I did build one when it was legal to do so, and legal to leave it unregistered, but at the time, I did engrave a serial number into it, do I need to register it in 2019? Is it legal to possess in 2019?

[ulmapache]

register

Not legal advice, and strictly my own opinion...but if this theoretical semi-auto handgun was never registered, I would see to it that it remained unregistered. Of course, you could not use it as your EDC with a CCW......

[jwkincal]

1968

You have a time machine or something? I can advise you on many more profitable uses...

[Uncivil Engineer]

Are you suggesting all pistols built since 1968 were required to be registered, when they were built?

1968

You have a time machine or something? I can advise you on many more profitable uses...

[jwkincal]

Are you suggesting all pistols built since 1968 were required to be registered, when they were built?

No, but they are required to be registered by the law that was passed last year that stipulated ANY firearm built after 1968 which DOES NOT have a serial number which APPEARS IN THE STATE OR FEDERAL DATABASE must apply to have one assigned and then etched into the receiver.

This was extensively discussed here at the time, and many folks wished very hard that "mine's already built and I put my own number on it so I am good" was going to be enough, but when the qualified folks offered their opinion it was not good news.

If you built it, and it's in CA, and you live in CA, then you have to register it with a number that the DOJ has given you and have that number applied to your firearm, UNLESS you built it before 1968.

If you did already apply your own mark and you did a voluntary registration PRIOR TO THIS LAST JULY 1, you got to keep your own mark... otherwise you're stuck with what the state decides to give you. And if you built it some time ago and still have not registered, then I expect you are just about to run out of time so you'd best start your research.

I wish I could soothe your anguish, but this is how things are.

[Cokebottle]

Okay lets play devils advocate here.

How can the government prove a home built semi auto pistol wasn't built before 1968?

It is entirely reasonable and possible that a 1911 could have been built at home pre-1968. The machine tools to do so can be found in home shops today. Knee mills, etc..

That is a discussion to take place between you and your attorney, not this forum.

[kcheung2]

That is a discussion to take place between you and your attorney, not this forum.

Yep. There's a portion of the populace who will IDGAF about some laws, and while I don't have an opinion on that choice, it makes sense to be discrete about it. Don't advertise. No one wants to know.

[Cokebottle]

Yep. There's a portion of the populace who will IDGAF about some laws, and while I don't have an opinion on that choice, it makes sense to be discrete about it. Don't advertise. No one wants to know.

And mainly, the forum does not permit discussion of illegal activity or "wink wink" ways of avoiding prosecution. That is a one way trip in the HOV lane to BanTown.

We often discuss LEGAL workarounds. Lying about the date of manufacture of a handgun is not a workaround.


To answer the original question:
Any firearm home-built after 1968 must be serialized AND registered if in the possession of a California resident within California. The registration deadline for the builder-defined serial number was last July 1.

Home manufacture of a handgun was restricted to "dimensionally compliant Single shot/Single action" with the implementation of the roster.

SSE v2 was enacted that changed "dimensionally compliant single shot" to "dimensionally compliant single shot break-top bolt action"
This stopped the legal process of simply changing the barrel and locking in a zero-round sled for purposes of sale, followed by the buyer restoring the original barrel and magazine configuration. This process was only widely accepted by FFLs for a couple of years... which was the beginning of the end.

Due to the expanded definition of "manufacturing" in 2017, it arguably became no longer legal to home-build a roster-exempt handgun and then convert it to semi-automatic.


Currently: All above restrictions remain in place, but PRIOR to beginning the manufacture of a home-built, you must apply for a serial number from the DOJ, which is to be engraved on the frame. This also requires an FSC, and I have read that a COE and some notarized document is also required.
Home-built firearms that were not registered prior to July 1 now require a DOJ-issued serial number, same as if one is intended to be built.

[Cokebottle]

Enforceability is discussed on here all the time:

There is a difference between discussing enforceability and suggesting ways to evade enforcement.
It can sometimes be a fine line.

Please keep in mind that this forum is monitored by the DOJ, as well as the Brady/Bloomberg groups. Any information posted here alluding to or condoning illegal activity will absolutely be used against us.

Do not ever post anything publicly that could potentially bite you in the butt if you find yourself in court.

Why is it that any time I post there is a 50/50 chance someone will tell me not to ask or discuss something? Doesn't matter what the topic is.

Interesting comment given that you have only been a member for a month, have made only 30-some posts, and none of those threads or posts have EVER elicited such a response from anyone... nor have any of your comments been deserving of such a response until now.

Have you posted under a different username in the past?

[kcheung2]

...snip...
Why is it that any time I post there is a 50/50 chance someone will tell me not to ask or discuss something? Doesn't matter what the topic is.

Because while most of your posts start out with reasonable questions, there's a 50/50 chance they turn into questions about how much you can get away with. Doesn't matter what the topic is.

[rm1911]

How can the government prove a home built semi auto pistol wasn't built before 1968?

[machrono]

Well it certainly was made some time after coming back from 'Nam...just cant remember exactly how long after

[Quiet]

IMO...

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of an unregistered "home built" firearm can be used as evidence of violating CA self-made/assembled laws.

It would be on the possessor to prove that the "home built" firearm is exempt from needing to have been registered with CA DOJ.

[Quiet]

I am definitely not a lawyer and I am not trying to spread FUD, but the way I read the most recent law (AB-857) about home builds is that......

1) It has to have a unique serial number engraved on it prior to AB-857 going into effect. 30 June 2018? if I remember correctly.

2) If not engraved, you must request a serial number from Cal DOJ prior to building.

I did not see anywhere in AB-857 that required registration of a self-serialized home built weapon (long gun or handgun) if built prior to 1 July 2018.

If I am wrong I'm sure someone here will correct me.

Self-marked and voluntarily registered before 07-01-2018 are exempt. [PC 29181(c) and 11 CCR 5508(c)]

Self-marked and not voluntarily registered before 07-01-2018, requires CA DOJ approved marking info engraved on it before 01-01-2019. [PC 29180(c) and 11 CCR 5509(a) & 5510(a)(1)]


California Code of Regulations Title 11 Divison 5 Chapter 41 Article 3 Section 5508
Firearms Not Affected by This Chapter Pursuant to Penal Code Section 29181.
The following firearms are not affected by these regulations and do not have to be recorded with the Department:
(a) A self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm containing a serial number assigned to it pursuant to Penal Code section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(b) A firearm that was manufactured or assembled prior to December 16, 1968, as long as the firearm is not a handgun.
(c) A firearm that was entered into the centralized registry with the Department prior to July 1, 2018, pursuant to Penal Code section 11106. Such a firearm contains a serial number or other mark of identification assigned by the individual who manufactured or assembled the firearm and reported the serial number or mark of identification to the Department so that it is on file with the Department. This serial number or mark of identification is typically one that was created by the individual who manufactured or assembled the firearm; therefore, it is not a serial number or mark of identification that was issued by the Department.
(d) A firearm containing a serial number pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto. Hence, if the individual's firearm already has a serial number issued to it by a Federal Firearms Licensee, whether it is an already functionally complete firearm or just a receiver or frame by itself, the individual does not have to reapply for a Department-issued unique serial number.
(e) A firearm that is a curio, relic, or an antique firearm.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Divison 5 Chapter 41 Article 4 Section 5509
Persons Affected by These Regulations.
This article applies to the following:
(a) An individual who owns a self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm originally made from an unfinished receiver or frame as of July 1, 2018; and
(b) An individual who intends to manufacture or assemble a firearm from an unfinished receiver or frame on or after July 1, 2018.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Divison 5 Chapter 41 Article 4 Section 5510
Effective Dates.
(a) An individual who owns a self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm originally made from an unfinished receiver or frame that has not yet been recorded with the Department shall:
(1) Beginning on July 1, 2018, apply to the Department to request a unique serial number to record the firearm with the Department. The individual shall submit an electronic application to request a serial number for the self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm to the Department before January 1, 2019.
(b) As of July 1, 2018, no individual shall manufacture or assemble a firearm from an unfinished receiver or frame unless the individual applies to the Department for a unique serial number prior to manufacturing or assembling the firearm.

Edited to add: If you want to sell or transfer the weapon it must be registered first. That is the only time I believe it must be registered.

Within CA, it is illegal to transfer the ownership of "home built" firearms that are registered in accordance to the CA self-made/assembled laws and the only exemption to this is for the surrendering to law enforcement for destruction. [PC 29180(d)]


Penal Code 29180
(d)(1) The sale or transfer of ownership of a firearm manufactured or assembled pursuant to this section is prohibited.
(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply to the transfer, surrender, or sale of a firearm to a law enforcement agency.
(3) Any firearms surrendered, transferred, or sold to a local law enforcement agency pursuant to paragraph (2) shall be destroyed as provided in Section 18005.
(4) Sections 26500 and 27545, and subdivision (a) of Section 31615, do not apply to the transfer, sale, or surrender of firearms to a law enforcement agency pursuant to paragraph (2).