Obama disarms pilots

[Meplat]

I always thought that every competent adult on a plane should be provided with a wrist rocket a sack of marbles for ammo and a lead weighted truncheon but I guess a big *** knife might be almost as good.

Don't expect any help from me. I'm hittin the flor!!

[oops]

sorry for the sarcasm.... didn't want to annoy anyone but for the most part I think you guys a misinformed about airplanes. That is my opinion. You feel safer with guns aboard and I don't. I hope the pilots win this battle for the sake of gun rights but as soon as something happens like pilot overreacting or has an accident then this will be another media frenzy. Most of you think pilots seem to have ultra super human capabilites when it comes to reacting under pressure and making sound decisions. This just isn't so.

[N6ATF]

It's not a matter of "super human capabilities", which I have not gotten any impression of, as you claim most of us think.

If we trust them with the largest, most deadliest weapon available to civilians, logically we cannot distrust them with lesser weapons. Simple as that, anything else is presenting a straw man argument.

[vrand]

I'm with MBLAT. If airline pilots cannot be trusted with guns, then neither can cops.
.

Even more so. One PO's daily scope of duties is far less than that of an airline pilot that is responsible for +100's of peoples lives, in an airship 35,000 feet straight up.

[Glock22Fan]

Most of you think pilots seem to have ultra super human capabilites when it comes to reacting under pressure and making sound decisions. This just isn't so.

If you think that super human capabilities are needed to carry a gun and react properly under pressure, then you are effectively banning 99%+ of the population from carrying. No different up there than on the ground, and pilots undergo far more stringent medical and psychological testing than do we lesser mortals. So, if pilots can't be trusted, who can (which was the point of my "then cops shouldn't carry" earlier)?

[Suvorov]

OK Guys, just to throw a little water on the party. I received this this morning from ALPA (Airline Pilots Association).

TSA Reconfirms Commitment to FFDO Program
March 17, 2009


In stark contrast to an op-ed article in today’s edition (March 17, 2009) of the Washington Times, that claims “…President Obama is quietly ending the federal firearms program, risking public safety on airlines in the name of an anti-gun ideology,” TSA officials reassured ALPA they are committed to the FFDO program and have plans for its expansion.
TSA’s leadership immediately contacted ALPA and requested a meeting to discuss this news report. ALPA representatives met with TSA executives this afternoon and were told that TSA embraces the FFDO program, that there are no plans to reduce or restrict its growth, and that the agency fully intends to grow and expand the program.

Government representatives acknowledged that the program needs additional funding to achieve these goals, and that they are actively pursuing sources of additional funding. These funds will be used to enhance the program’s management structure and oversight, which if implemented, will address an ALPA Board of Directors security priority.

TSA is currently training hundreds of pilots each year and plans to continue to train at least that number or more into the future. The size of the FFDO cadre has grown so large that additional resources are needed to provide greater structure and oversight to this important program, which TSA referred to today as “an important layer of defense.”

“ALPA is very pleased that the TSA was so proactive in communicating its concerns to the Association and we are likewise pleased that we are able to report this good news to the membership,” said ALPA President, Capt. John Prater. “ALPA values its relationship with the TSA, and it is obvious from the way the agency handled this event that the feeling is mutual.”

ALPA, along with the NRA and key members of congress were the driving force behind the FFDO program. Now I have no doubt that some in the Obama Admin would like to end the program and we need to stay vigilant, but the program is not going away at this moment. Also, while I am no lover of Obama, keep in mind that the Bush Admin also opposed this program and only accepted it when it was shoved down his throat. I can tell you that the approval process has seemed to have slowed down over the past year (when Bush was in power) however there are training classes being conducted at this time for new FFDOs.

[Suvorov]

sorry for the sarcasm.... didn't want to annoy anyone but for the most part I think you guys a misinformed about airplanes. That is my opinion. You feel safer with guns aboard and I don't. I hope the pilots win this battle for the sake of gun rights but as soon as something happens like pilot overreacting or has an accident then this will be another media frenzy. Most of you think pilots seem to have ultra super human capabilites when it comes to reacting under pressure and making sound decisions. This just isn't so.

Clearly, you do not work for a major carrier or know some of the pilots I work with!

These comments are just insane (especially given that one of the posters claims to be a commercial pilot).

Just like any profession, there are those who slip through the cracks and there are airline pilots who are not talented enough, or responsible enough, to hold their position. However this is true for EVERYTHING including police, military, politicians, and even fry cooks and Burger King. Focusing on the margins is the same tactic the anti's use and frankly won't fly here.

The FFDO program is not a simple program to get into and only a small percentage of Airline Transport Pilots are deputised. It consists of a selection battery, followed by a Law Enforcement Psychological interview, followed by a Federal Law Enforcement background investigation. Once selected, the pilot will attend training at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, before becoming an FFDO.

I still think this should be paid for by the airlines and/or pilots. Let them pay for the federally mandated training. Do the tax payers pay for CCW training when everyone gets their Utah CCW's? Of course not.

The FFDO program is voluntary and as a result, the Pilot is not compensated in any way for becoming an FFDO. Getting time off for initial training and recurrent training is all unpaid, the Officer also pays room and board during training, pays for training ammunition, and also any other misc items. The only thing that is payed for is the cost of the training as well as the selection.

I just had a few pints with a friend of mine, and we were discussing this, as he is a pilot.

Seems he got a subsidy to purchase his weapon.

No, the FFDO receives an issued weapon (a .40CAL HK UPSC) from the TSA to cary while on duty. H&K does offer a special promotion to all airline pilots to purchase an FFDO USP at a discounted price.

Originally Posted by JBBenson
Guns on planes is a bad idea.

The only thing worse than gunfire on an aircraft is a fire on board. Guns are not the solution to everything. There are other ways to solve hijacking situations.

Pilots need to concentrate on flying the plane, not bringing down hijackers.

I'm glad to know that I won't be shot by a pilot when I'm flying.

Two more very misinformed posts. First, you need to understand that the FFDO is NOT going to be going to be going into the cabin and engaging tangos like some one man Seal Team Six. In a terrorist situation, one FFDO will be defending the cockpit while the other pilot is flying the airplane.

It really baffles the mind how some of you (supposedly gun smart people) feel unsafe with a firearm in the cockpit. An airline pilot is responsible for a multi million dollar aircraft as well as the lives of 30-400 passengers and crew. They operate day in and day out in a very structured and regulatory environment and receive far more scrutiny and oversight during their career than almost any other profession, and yet you don't think they are responsible enough to handle a simple .40 CAL weapon. Pilots do make mistakes, they are human like anyone else, but you are far more likely to be injured in a CFIT or icing accident than through the mishandling of a weapon by the flight crew. Such arguments are misinformed and probably colored by a fear of flying as well as latent Hoplophobia.

70% of airline pilots are ex-military. I don't care if they flew F-16s' FA-18s, C-130s, C5-As, RC-135s, or any other military aircraft. They were all trained to safely and effectively handle a side arm.

Or in my case, an M1A1 Abrams

[Meplat]

Or in my case, an M1A1 Abrams

That looks more like a Whippet

http://www.peachmountain.com/5Star/US_Army_Ordnance_Museum_Whippet_tank.aspx

[The Wingnut]

Documented case of a aircraft commander's negligent discharge.

Possible cause for negligent discharge. - note that it wasn't the pilot's fault, but the silly rules in place!

The aircraft did not explosively decompress, people did not get sucked out of a hole, nobody got hurt, there was just a hole in the aircraft and a lot of whistling noise through it.

You're under far more danger of loss to life and limb driving your car down a public highway that you EVER will be, firearms in the cockpit or not, while being transported in a commercial airliner.

What scares people are the extremes involved - size of the conveyance, speed, height, complexity. These same people will drive down the freeway with thousand of pounds of motor vehicle hurtling along under their control, while applying makeup, eating, talking on phones, reading, working on laptops, fiddling with radios, and various and sundry other distracting activities. They get in accidents all the time, and yet they act almost fearlessly behind the wheel. Much of their perception of dangers involved with aircraft and firearms comes not from documented incidents, but from silly movies written by screenwriters with no practical experience with regard to eirther topic - but they sure know what's dramatic!

A business associate was one of the first U.S. Federal Sky Marshals. His blog on the topic is an eye-opener, this article in particular.

I'm actually far more nervous while driving then flying, and as a result, I drive very defensively. I travel a lot, and the aircraft I usually travel in, I did the maintenance on myself - I'm a USAF KC-10 mechanic. Would I trust my aircraft commanders and first officers with sidearms? Absolutely. Many of them are also airline pilots outside of their military service.

[strega7]

but you are far more likely to be injured in a CFIT or icing accident than through the mishandling of a weapon by the flight crew.

Even more likely is killing your back moving your flight kit around or slipping on de-ice fluid and breaking your neck!!!

[Liberty1]

pilots should be armed

Passengers should not be disarmed. Anyone for starting a charter airline: "2A Flights"!

[mblat]

Passengers should not be disarmed. Anyone for starting a charter airline: "2A Flights"!

You wish...... Probably couldn't do it even if wanted...... due to some federal regulations.....