Carrows Corporate Allows Open Carry

[Decoligny]

Below is from a thread in OpenCarry.org

Looks like Carrows has no problems with people Open Carrying.



Here is an e-mail sent to Carrow's corporate complaint department with the subject "Here's your chance to earn back my business."

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To Whom It May Concern:

It has come to my attention that the staff of your restaurant in Cerritos, CA recently called police on a law-abiding customer resulting in his being detained for an hour. The customer was also told that he was never allowed to return - I can only assume the cops were following the manager's request. The staff of the restuarant apparently didn't like the fact that the patron was lawfully carry an exposed firearm. The firearm remained holstered (until police took it for inspection), and no laws were broken.

The actions of the police department are not the legal liability of Carrows, and those actions will be answered for if/when a federl lawsuit is filed. However, I feel that Carrows is ethically liable for instigating the police contact. California is currently in an educational/transitional state where law enforcement, as well as private citizens and companies, are learning to accept the lawful carry of firearms that is taken for granted in the vast majority of the nation.

I am very disappointed that this happened. I hope it was the rogue actions of the local staff, and not due to corporate policy. It is enfuriating to hear of a law-abiding citizen being harassed at the whim of the business they are patronizing. I am sure central management will be equally dismayed to hear what happened, and I hope corrective action will be taken.

As a civil rights activist, and California "state researcher" for OpenCarry.org, I must set an example by boycotting your business until I have satisfactory assurance that this will not happen again. At that time, I will gladly encourage my fellow activists to give you their patronage. In order to be satisfied, I ask that you answer the following questions:

Is it the policy of Carrows to discriminate against persons exercising their second amendment right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self defense?

What actions does Carrows intend to take in order to prevent further discrimination against its patrons?

We often have 'meetups' where we socialize and discuss current events. Would Carrows discriminate against a large group wishing to enjoy Carrows food while discussing and engaging in lawful carry of firearms?

Please be aware that this e-mail, and any response you provide, will be shared on a public internet forum located on http://www.OpenCarry.org.

I do not work for the owners of the OpenCarry.org web site, and the views I state here do not necessarily represent them or their views.

I eagerly await your response.

Sincerely,

~David Tapley

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Response received 3/12/09:


Dear Mr. Tapley:

Your e-mail dated March 9, 2009 has been forwarded to me for response.

In response to your questions set forth below, Carrows does not discriminate on the basis of sex, race, color, creed, national origin, religion, age, marital status, pregnancy, physical, mental, medical or sensory disability, sexual orientation, ancestry, citizenship or any other basis or characteristic protected by federal, state or local law.

Carrows welcomes all customers to its restaurants and does not discriminate against persons exercising their second amendment rights.

Carrows would welcome the opportunity to serve you and your group at your next meeting.

Please let me know if you have any questions or if I can be of further assistance.

Best regards,

Rebecca Walsh


Rebecca J. Walsh
Vice President and General Counsel
Catalina Restaurant Group, Inc.
2200 Faraday Avenue, Suite 250
Carlsbad, CA 92008
Telephone: (760) 476-5176
Facsimile: (760) 476-5148
Cell/Blackberry: (760) 889-1141
E-mail Address: rwalsh@cc-cw.com

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http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/22765-2.html

[mymonkeyman]

Also I'm pretty sure many Carrows are franchised and the physical store is franchisee-owned, so it's not like Carrows corporate can override a franchisee's decision to ban you from the store (absent a specific provision in the franchisee agreement, which you can't really know about anyway).

[rumble phish]

May I ask why some people feel it's important to publicly display an unloaded firearm on their person?

How do the employee's/owners of said restuaunt know this person was "law abiding"? How do they know he wasn't some crackpot carrying his gun around like John Wayne? This isn't the old west. How do they know it wasn't loaded? Did he come in and announce it? These are all serious questions and I'm not trying to be a smart a**.

Is it not Carrows responsibility to ensure a safe environment for their customers and employee's? What if the guy WAS a nut case who decided to order a short stack and start shooting? Then Carrows would be held liable for NOT calling the authorities about a man carrying a gun in their restaurant.


I'm all for carry laws, but I think open carry is just ridiculous. Discretion is the better part of valor as they say. No need to show it off if you have it.

[1911su16b870]

IBTL

[Saigon1965]

The way franchise agreements are written - You would need a team of lawyers to decipher -

Also I'm pretty sure many Carrows are franchised and the physical store is franchisee-owned, so it's not like Carrows corporate can override a franchisee's decision to ban you from the store (absent a specific provision in the franchisee agreement, which you can't really know about anyway).

[Vtec44]

May I ask why some people feel it's important to publicly display an unloaded firearm on their person?

How do the employee's/owners of said restuaunt know this person was "law abiding"? How do they know he wasn't some crackpot carrying his gun around like John Wayne? This isn't the old west. How do they know it wasn't loaded? Did he come in and announce it? These are all serious questions and I'm not trying to be a smart a**.

Is it not Carrows responsibility to ensure a safe environment for their customers and employee's? What if the guy WAS a nut case who decided to order a short stack and start shooting? Then Carrows would be held liable for NOT calling the authorities about a man carrying a gun in their restaurant.


I'm all for carry laws, but I think open carry is just ridiculous. Discretion is the better part of valor as they say. No need to show it off if you have it.

It's about excercising what is lawfully allowed and create public awareness. I personally won't open carry, but I can understand and support those that do.

[socal2310]

rumble phish,

I'm not a big fan of open carry, but let's be realistic here: A criminal is going to use an illegal, loaded, concealed firearm. He is not going to carry it openly and unloaded.

I often wish people in the general public would get a grip, I don't expect their apologists on gun boards.

Ryan

[Shotgun Man]

I liked the response of Carrows Corporate-- a female no less. She will not stand in the way of your 2A rights. Damn near brought tears to my eyes.

Nice letter too, but you should've ran spellcheck.

The actions of the police department are not the legal liability of Carrows, and those actions will be answered for if/when a federl lawsuit is filed.

[VW*Mike]

You should take her up on her offer and have an open carry breakfast!

[zachary2287]

You should take her up on her offer and have an open carry breakfast!

+1

An open carry breakfast would be great and perhaps we could even get the media to show which may help educate people. And it could also help expose the unlawful detention.

[rumble phish]

rumble phish,

I'm not a big fan of open carry, but let's be realistic here: A criminal is going to use an illegal, loaded, concealed firearm. He is not going to carry it openly and unloaded.

I often wish people in the general public would get a grip, I don't expect their apologists on gun boards.

Ryan

I don't advocate open carry, I just like playing the devil's advocate.

[sfpcservice]

This makes me think of Visa and Mastercard's corproate policies. According to them, the merchant is not to ask for ID if the card is signed. But how many times is ID demanded even with a signed card?

The problem is the local management enforcing thier own policy, and employee training. So I wouldn't expect a regular Carrows employee to know they are supposed to let you in with a gun, and the local manager may not allow it at all. I think the only recourse is to complain to corporate.

[soopafly]

rumble phish, while I personally would not UOC at this time due to overall strategic concerns regarding incorporation, I think some of your assertions here are inaccurate...

May I ask why some people feel it's important to publicly display an unloaded firearm on their person?

Perhaps because it is well within their rights? Perhaps to create awareness that a "person with a gun" does not equate to "criminal" ready to wreak havoc? Perhaps to show the public that gun owners are just every day Joes just like the next person?

How do the employee's/owners of said restuaunt know this person was "law abiding"? How do they know he wasn't some crackpot carrying his gun around like John Wayne?

If you are thinking this, then you should be wary of ANYONE that enters the restaurant, and ANYBODY entering is a possible crackpot that could wreak havoc an mayhem. How do the employee's/owners of said restuaunt know that ANY PERSON was "law abiding"?

This isn't the old west.

Thank God for that...I would be out building railroads for a bowl of rice if it were...

How do they know it wasn't loaded?

You don't...just like you don't know who is conceal carrying ILLEGALLY.

Is it not Carrows responsibility to ensure a safe environment for their customers and employee's?

There is a reasonable expectation for them to provide "safety", but in the end YOU are responsible for your own safety. A person that is concerned about every customer coming into a restaurant being a "nut case" would probably feel safer, and probably should stay, at home.

What if the guy WAS a nut case who decided to order a short stack and start shooting? Then Carrows would be held liable for NOT calling the authorities about a man carrying a gun in their restaurant.

What if there was a UOC'er or CCW holder that stops the shooting rampage before more people are killed? Should Carrows also take credit for preventing the bloodshed?

I'm all for carry laws, but I think open carry is just ridiculous. Discretion is the better part of valor as they say. No need to show it off if you have it.

I agree with you on this except the part about open carry being ridiculous. Loaded open carry would be even better

Like I said, I personally would not UOC at this time for strategic reasons, but for those that do, good for them.

[sfpcservice]

As far as Credit Card ID goes, I blacked out everything on my DL except for my name. You should see their faces when they ask for ID. Every time they frown as if I ruined the power trip.

[bohoki]

wow i though carrows cares

but i guess they don't

whoo hoo its a free for all