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Guide to Avoiding DOJ assigned Serializing for Home Builds (AB 857 and BBAW)

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  • Discogodfather
    CGN Contributor
    • Feb 2010
    • 5516

    Guide to Avoiding DOJ assigned Serializing for Home Builds (AB 857 and BBAW)

    Guide to Avoiding DOJ assigned Serializing for Home Builds (AB 857 and BBAW)

    DISCLAIMER: This is not legal advice. This guide is a work in progress and it's up to you to make sure you understand the law and take responsibility for your own interpretation of how the system works. This guide will be revised and amended as new information becomes available.

    If you are like me you have been home building for years and have a few (or many) home built guns. There is a huge amount of ambiguity as to all the new laws, and the primary question revolves around how we fit these legally built firearms into the new system and keep them legal.

    UPDATE: October 25th, 2017: Many reports have come in that volregging and then attempting to use that serial for registering AW has been rejected by the DOJ. They are mandating you go through form 1008 and get their assigned serial. If you have a homebuild that you want to register as an AW, you need to go through their process outlined in the regulations. You need to mark the gun with their assigned serial in in accordance with their marking standard. All by July 1st 2018.

    IF YOU WANT REGISTER AS AW, DO NOT VOLREG FIRST. Go through their process using form 1008.

    If you want to without a doubt be in compliance with AB 857 Cooper, volreg your firearm and convert to featureless by July 1st 2018.


    First off, a description of the laws that effect our firearms:

    1) SB 880 BBAW Law: Calls for home built semi-auto firearms legally built between 2001-2016 with bullet buttons to be registered as AW. If you don't want to register, you have to find a legal alternative like going featureless, etc. The DOJ in the BBAW regulations calls out a series of steps required to serialize your home build that includes getting the DOJ to issue a unique serial you then can engrave on your firearm.

    2) AB 857 Law: Calls for all guns, every home build since 1968, that has not been marked with a type of serial number described in the exemptions found in section 29181 of the law be marked with a DOJ assigned serial number. The process is exactly the same to the BBAW regulations, which requires a series of steps to that includes getting the DOJ to issue a unique serial you then can engrave on your firearm. Nothing is grandfathered in, all Home Builds going back to 1968 are effected.


    If you are like me, you went to great expense to engrave your firearms according to federal standards (or other standards you saw fit) and legally marked your firearms with your own serials, information, etc.

    If we now have to utilize the existing DOJ process for obtaining an issued serial number we are going to be in a world of pain. First off, most likely our firearms have been finished with paint or other methods, and we would have to ruin this finish. Also there is the complete ambiguity of what to do with our old serials and information. Should they be obliterated or marked over? DOJ doesn't seem to be able to answer these questions, and I have tried asking many times. We also are afraid federal laws regarding the obliteration of serial numbers (even ones we marked ourselves) might be violated by obliterating our own marked info.

    There are also some of us that didn't have our firearms marked at all (perfectly legal) but still finished the rifle and also do not want to destroy that finish. Many other situations also apply, like not having access to anyone who can engrave the firearm according to the new process standards. Most shops will not agree to marking an AW, and there are specific rules about leaving AW with someone not authorized by the State to handle AW.

    Whatever the reason, this guide has two processes to help people avoid the DOJ process that the DOJ themselves have not made clear as to how it would work.

    __________________________________________________ ___


    Option Number 1: Take Advantage of AB 857 Exemptions found in section 29181 using CFARS Firearms Ownership Report (Volreg) before July 1st 2018

    AB 857 Cooper exempts certain firearms from having to undergo the DOJ assigned serial process:

    29181. Section 29180 does not apply to or affect any of the following:

    (a) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
    (b) A firearm made or assembled prior to December 16, 1968, that is not a handgun.
    (c) A firearm which was entered into the centralized registry set forth in Section 11106 prior to July 1, 2018, as being owned by a specific individual or entity if that firearm has assigned to it a distinguishing number or mark of identification to that firearm by virtue of the department accepting entry of that firearm into the centralized registry.
    (d) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
    (e) A firearm that is a curio or relic, or an antique firearm, as those terms are defined in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.


    Highlighted in (c) is an exemption for firearms marked in accordance with the CFARS Firearms Ownership Report, also called the voluntary registration process. Any firearm legally manufactured before July 1st 2018 can undergo the Volreg (CFARS Firearms Ownership Report) process and a serial number you engraved can be submitted and entered into a "centralized registry".

    As long as the firearm is featureless or otherwise legally converted to manual, fixed magazine, etc. it can be voluntarily registered prior to July 1st 2018 using the CFARS Firearms Ownership Report. At that point, when you have finished the Volreg (CFARS Firearms Ownership Report) process and they have approved your serial number, you are exempt from AB 857's marking requirements. This can only be accomplished BEFORE July 1st 2018 and after that date you must submit to the DOJ assigned serial process.

    If you do not want to do this via electronic format, it's available as a paper mail in form HERE.



    **********


    DOJ Process to apply for a unique serial number. (This is the process we hope to avoid):

    29180. (a) For purposes of this chapter, “manufacturing” or “assembling” a firearm means to fabricate or construct a firearm, or to fit together the component parts of a firearm to construct a firearm.

    (b) Commencing July 1, 2018, prior to manufacturing or assembling a firearm, a person manufacturing or assembling the firearm shall do all of the following:

    (1) Apply to the Department of Justice for a unique serial number or other mark of identification pursuant to Section 29182.

    (2) (A) Within 10 days of manufacturing or assembling a firearm in accordance with paragraph (1), the unique serial number or other mark of identification provided by the department shall be engraved or permanently affixed to the firearm in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

    (B) If the firearm is manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction with the unique serial number engraved or otherwise permanently affixed in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

    (3) After the serial number provided by the department is engraved or otherwise permanently affixed to the firearm, the person shall notify the department of that fact in a manner and within a time period specified by the department, and with sufficient information to identify the owner of the firearm, the unique serial number or mark of identification provided by the department, and the firearm in a manner prescribed by the department.

    (c) By January 1, 2019, any person who, as of July 1, 2018, owns a firearm that does not bear a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, shall do all of the following:

    (1) Apply to the Department of Justice for a unique serial number or other mark of identification pursuant to Section 29182.

    (2) Within 10 days of receiving a unique serial number or other mark of identification from the department, the unique serial number or other mark of identification provided by the department shall be engraved or permanently affixed to the firearm in accordance with regulations prescribed by the department pursuant to Section 29182 and in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

    (3) After the serial number provided by the department is engraved or otherwise permanently affixed to the firearm, the person shall notify the department of that fact in a manner and within a time period specified by the department, and with sufficient information to identify the owner of the firearm, the unique serial number or mark of identification provided by the department, and the firearm in a manner prescribed by the department.

    (d) (1) The sale or transfer of ownership of a firearm manufactured or assembled pursuant to this section is prohibited.

    (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the transfer, surrender, or sale of a firearm to a law enforcement agency.

    (3) Any firearms surrendered, transferred, or sold to a local law enforcement agency pursuant to paragraph (2) shall be destroyed as provided in Section 18005.

    (4) Sections 26500 and 27545, and subdivision (a) of Section 31615, shall not apply to the transfer, sale, or surrender of firearms to a law enforcement agency pursuant to paragraph (2).

    (e) A person, corporation, or firm shall not knowingly allow, facilitate, aid, or abet the manufacture or assembling of a firearm pursuant to this section by a person who is within any of the classes identified by Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of this code, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.

    (f) If the firearm is a handgun, a violation of this section is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. For all other firearms, a violation of this section is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. Each firearm found to be in violation of this section constitutes a distinct and separate offense. This section does not preclude prosecution under any other law providing for a greater penalty.
    Last edited by Discogodfather; 06-21-2018, 3:35 PM.
    Originally posted by doggie
    Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
    Originally posted by PMACA_MFG
    Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
    "The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

  • #2
    Jimi Jah
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Jan 2014
    • 18643

    The pistol gets a DFM mag and the rifles are now featureless. That's all the guide I need here.

    Comment

    • #3
      Discogodfather
      CGN Contributor
      • Feb 2010
      • 5516

      Originally posted by Jimi Jah
      The pistol gets a DFM mag and the rifles are now featureless. That's all the guide I need here.
      Doesn't it still need to be marked? 857 is pretty clear to me.
      Originally posted by doggie
      Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
      Originally posted by PMACA_MFG
      Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
      "The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

      Comment

      • #4
        Maltese Falcon
        Ordo Militaris Templi
        CGN Contributor
        • Feb 2009
        • 6679

        Tag

        Comment

        • #5
          OCArmory
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2008
          • 1321

          Wouldn't entering it after Dec 31 2016 make it not register-able? I have several that I was just going to disassemble but would rather register.

          Comment

          • #6
            CandG
            Spent $299 for this text!
            CGN Contributor - Lifetime
            • Apr 2014
            • 16970

            Another excellent guide Disco. I'm definitely curious to see what DOJ accepts with regards to AW registration.
            Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


            Comment

            • #7
              CandG
              Spent $299 for this text!
              CGN Contributor - Lifetime
              • Apr 2014
              • 16970

              Originally posted by OCArmory
              Wouldn't entering it after Dec 31 2016 make it not register-able? I have several that I was just going to disassemble but would rather register.
              No, the law (and regulations) only say you had to possess the weapon before 2017. In fact, the regulations say homebuilds need a DOJ-assigned serial number, and even 8 months into 2017 they still haven't given us a system with which to do that, so they NEED to accept registrations from people who vol-reg'd after 2016.
              Last edited by CandG; 08-15-2017, 10:46 AM.
              Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


              Comment

              • #8
                onelonehorseman
                Veteran Member
                • Oct 2012
                • 4888

                Question:

                If you purchased a home build from another person prior to 2017, and it was legally transferred through an FFL with the SN that the the original builder placed on it when they built it, is it GTG now with that SN that it was DROSed with when transferred?
                sigpic

                Comment

                • #9
                  Discogodfather
                  CGN Contributor
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 5516

                  Originally posted by onelonehorseman
                  Question:

                  If you purchased a home build from another person prior to 2017, and it was legally transferred through an FFL with the SN that the the original builder placed on it when they built it, is it GTG now with that SN that it was DROSed with when transferred?
                  If it was done after 2014 then I think it's in the "centralized registry", but it would have had to have a serial number and be DROS'd with it. Previous to 2014 I don't think it's in there.

                  Since it dosen't appear in exemptions, I would register using the volreg to make sure.

                  Another good question for a DOJ phone call, they will probably have to "get back to you" on that one too.
                  Originally posted by doggie
                  Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
                  Originally posted by PMACA_MFG
                  Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
                  "The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    CandG
                    Spent $299 for this text!
                    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 16970

                    Originally posted by onelonehorseman
                    Question:

                    If you purchased a home build from another person prior to 2017, and it was legally transferred through an FFL with the SN that the the original builder placed on it when they built it, is it GTG now with that SN that it was DROSed with when transferred?
                    If it was after 2014, then yes it's good to go. That's sort of the same result as voluntary registration, except in your case it was mandatory registration, because a transfer occurred.

                    If it was before 2014, then I don't know. *Theoretically* DOJ didn't retain records from long gun sales before 2014, so you may have to vol-reg, but I'm really not sure.
                    Last edited by CandG; 08-15-2017, 11:01 AM.
                    Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


                    Comment

                    • #11
                      onelonehorseman
                      Veteran Member
                      • Oct 2012
                      • 4888

                      Originally posted by Discogodfather
                      If it was done after 2014 then I think it's in the "centralized registry", but it would have had to have a serial number and be DROS'd with it. Previous to 2014 I don't think it's in there.

                      Since it dosen't appear in exemptions, I would register using the volreg to make sure.

                      Another good question for a DOJ phone call, they will probably have to "get back to you" on that one too.
                      It was transferred after January 1, 2014 and was transferred/DROSed using the SN that was on it.

                      I would think that it should be in the system as such.

                      IF . . . I were to register it, what would I put down as the manufacturer? . . .other?
                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Discogodfather
                        CGN Contributor
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 5516

                        Originally posted by onelonehorseman
                        It was transferred after January 1, 2014 and was transferred/DROSed using the SN that was on it.

                        I would think that it should be in the system as such.

                        IF . . . I were to register it, what would I put down as the manufacturer? . . .other?
                        Probably the person who made it, but you could put home built as well.
                        Originally posted by doggie
                        Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
                        Originally posted by PMACA_MFG
                        Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
                        "The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          SkyHawk
                          I need a LIFE!!
                          • Sep 2012
                          • 23510

                          Wait, I thought if they were already marked before the new law kicks in, we are fine. I don't see where they have to be registered AT ALL? Not unless they are AW. If they are not AW, they just need to be marked but not registered, and they can be marked with a serial number of your choosing, so long as this is done before the new law starts.

                          OP - please clarify if this thread only applies to AW? Because as I understand it, NOT AW does not have to be registered, only serialized before the new law starts. I plan for my homebuilds to be featureless, and marked with my own serial before the new law starts, and NOT registered.

                          Thanks,
                          Last edited by SkyHawk; 08-15-2017, 11:07 AM.
                          Click here for my iTrader Feedback thread: https://www.calguns.net/forum/market...r-feedback-100

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            superhondaz50
                            Veteran Member
                            • Feb 2006
                            • 3076

                            Is exemption (a) no longer an option?
                            Your name
                            City, state
                            Caliber
                            Model
                            Originally Posted By CTbuilder1 @ arfcom:
                            A lot of time and energy goes into thinking up ways to make perfectly good rifles into something dumb. Single shot ARs are gay. AR pistols are also gay. Just my opinion, of course, but a single shot AR pistol would be an AIDS cannon.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              TMB 1
                              Calguns Addict
                              • Dec 2012
                              • 7153

                              Originally posted by SkyHawk
                              Wait, I thought if they were already marked before the new law kicks in, we are fine. I don't see where they have to be registered AT ALL? Not unless they are AW. If they are not AW, they just need to be marked but not registered, and they can be marked with a serial number of your choosing, so long as this is done before the new law starts.

                              OP - please clarify if this thread only applies to AW? Because as I understand it, NOT AW does not have to be registered, only serialized before the new law starts. I plan for my homebuilds to be featureless, and marked with my own serial before the new law starts, and NOT registered.

                              Thanks,
                              That's what I thought too, but doesn't look like it's ok to do. Also looks like people with polymer lowers are screwed and won't be able to have them.
                              sigpic

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