LEOs Use of Gun Registration as Basis for Reasonable Suspicion During Stop

[Corporal]

Some time ago, local police in Orange County pulled me over because I had a tail light out. To my surprise, my license was 10 days expired. I explained to the officer that I'd sent my money to the state for a replacement during the renewal period, and that the updated license had not yet arrived.

At this point he asked, "Do you have a handgun in the vehicle?" I responded, "why are you asking about that?" He did not answer. I then said, "no." Fast forward a few minutes, I'm taken out of the vehicle, I get a terry-frisking, and I'm seated on the curb. The guy wants into my truck. He asks for consent, I decline. Supervisor shows up, tough guy, bald. He shouts, "WHERE'S YOUR GUN." I reply, "at home." I continue to refuse the search. Ultimately, they both follow me to a nearby parking lot, and tell me to have someone pick me and the truck up due to the expired license. At this time, I checked my online banking, saw that the state cashed my check for my new license. I decided, "good enough," and drove home.

Looking back on this incident, I can't help but feel like these a-holes had on-board access to handgun registration databases in California, and that they used that as a basis to suspect that I had a gun. Terry frisks are only supposed to be conducted if there is some basis to believe the subject is armed. But these guys had me on an expired license. Period. There was no way that guns should have been a consideration. Yet, there I was on the side of the road.

Has anyone else had a similar experience? I haven't really thought through the cause of action, but something is amiss where lawfully registering a legal piece of property exposes one to heightened scrutiny per se, without any other conduct.

[CBR_rider]

You asking for similar experiences or what kind of information law enforcement agencies have access to?

[I Swan]

I have hundreds of handguns registered to me and never has a CA LEO done to me as an adult what you had done to you. From what I know in a cursory run of a plate or license that info doesn't come up but having a CCW or registered assault weapons pops up right away. I have had various tickets and run ins with LE and this never was brought up.

I believe a more extensive check has to be made for gun ownership. Do you have gun related stickers on your vehicle?

[jarhead714]

So was it Orange or Tustin PD? Orange right?

[Corporal]

You asking for similar experiences or what kind of information law enforcement agencies have access to?

Both, actually. Similar experiences indicated commonality, answers to the other reveal if it is plausible.

[Corporal]

So was it Orange or Tustin PD? Orange right?

Irvine

[Corporal]

I have hundreds of handguns registered to me and never has a CA LEO done to me as an adult what you had done to you. From what I know in a cursory run of a plate or license that info doesn't come up but having a CCW or registered assault weapons pops up right away. I have had various tickets and run ins with LE and this never was brought up.

I believe a more extensive check has to be made for gun ownership. Do you have gun related stickers on your vehicle?

No stickers. Nothing. White guy, clean shaven, collared shirt, boat shoes, and shorts, driving an 01 Tacoma in good shape. Just so, painfully average. I can't imagine what else made this dude think about me having a gun, unless he saw it in his computer or something. For the record. I was not armed. I just don't consent to searches.

I was Courteous and respectful, as always. The culmination was a threat to impound my vehicle and perform an inventory search. I said, "Officer, if you want that paperwork for nothing, go ahead, but I don't consent to your search." After that we went to the parking lot.

[gogohopper]

I have hundreds of handguns registered to me and never has a CA LEO done to me as an adult what you had done to you. From what I know in a cursory run of a plate or license that info doesn't come up but having a CCW or registered assault weapons pops up right away. I have had various tickets and run ins with LE and this never was brought up.

I believe a more extensive check has to be made for gun ownership. Do you have gun related stickers on your vehicle?

Good to know. Another reason to legally avoid the AW registration.

[Ghost_of_1776]

I have hundreds of handguns registered to me and never has a CA LEO done to me as an adult what you had done to you. From what I know in a cursory run of a plate or license that info doesn't come up but having a CCW or registered assault weapons pops up right away. I have had various tickets and run ins with LE and this never was brought up.

I believe a more extensive check has to be made for gun ownership. Do you have gun related stickers on your vehicle?

It is a separate database from the DMV but the police do have access to the AFS system and running a search is not very difficult.

[RickD427]

I have hundreds of handguns registered to me and never has a CA LEO done to me as an adult what you had done to you. From what I know in a cursory run of a plate or license that info doesn't come up but having a CCW or registered assault weapons pops up right away. I have had various tickets and run ins with LE and this never was brought up.

I believe a more extensive check has to be made for gun ownership. Do you have gun related stickers on your vehicle?

I Swan,

That's not necessarily true.

Assault Weapon registrations, along with conventional registrations and CCW permit records are maintained in the DOJ operated Automated Firearms System (AFS). Driver's License and Vehicle Registration information is kept in automated systems maintained by DMV. The two records systems are not directly connected to each other. A query of the DMV system will not reveal any weapons or CCW information held by DOJ.

Each county operated a computer "switch" that routes records requests from their agencies to the various state operated databases. Each county has the prerogative to program their "switches" so that law enforcement inquiries will be directed to specific databases. A county could program their switch so that a Driver's License inquiry would go to the DMV Driver's License database and to the Wanted Persons, Restraining Order, Firearms Registration and CCW databases as well. There's 58 different counties in the state and 58 different ways of doing things.

[Ugly Hombre]

I had a friend who went for a late night walk he said he was stopped by a cop- who had him stand by and did a id check from the cruiser on him..

"you have a lot of guns- have any on you?" "No"

Not sure if its true or not was not there-but my friend is a solid guy.

[bazineta]

When you listen to the police scanner here in SJ, it's common as dirt to hear dispatch saying 'weapons registered at the residence' or something similar.

Your vehicle registration has your address on it. Do the math.

[tiger04]

Best thing to do is assume they know and act accordingly. If asked about weapons, simply reply I do not have anything that is illegal and proceed. If they ask where it is, let them know it's being stored or is located in accordance with the law. Do not ever consent to a search, but don't be stupid and resist. Let him go ahead and do his illegal search and deal with it afterwards. Always, always have some sort of recording device running during a stop.

[Tripper]

I Swan,

That's not necessarily true.

Assault Weapon registrations, along with conventional registrations and CCW permit records are maintained in the DOJ operated Automated Firearms System (AFS). Driver's License and Vehicle Registration information is kept in automated systems maintained by DMV. The two records systems are not directly connected to each other. A query of the DMV system will not reveal any weapons or CCW information held by DOJ.

Each county operated a computer "switch" that routes records requests from their agencies to the various state operated databases. Each county has the prerogative to program their "switches" so that law enforcement inquiries will be directed to specific databases. A county could program their switch so that a Driver's License inquiry would go to the DMV Driver's License database and to the Wanted Persons, Restraining Order, Firearms Registration and CCW databases as well. There's 58 different counties in the state and 58 different ways of doing things.

lol, just to elaborate a bit, 58 counties, that have 58 ways of doing things, there are over 500 law enforcement agencies in CA, each can have their own way of doing things, in my county, the county does it one way and the largest city does it another. then there are 13 other agencies in this county that 'could' (and some do) do things in other manners

[ScottsBad]

Best thing to do is assume they know and act accordingly. If asked about weapons, simply reply I do not have anything that is illegal and proceed. If they ask where it is, let them know it's being stored or is located in accordance with the law. Do not ever consent to a search, but don't be stupid and resist. Let him go ahead and do his illegal search and deal with it afterwards. Always, always have some sort of recording device running during a stop.

This has been discussed many times on this forum. These are the wrong things to say. You just don't consent to a search. Or you do. All the extra verbage is not helpful to you.

The OP ran into one of the AH cops that some LEO's don't think exist. Unfortunately they do. There are many really good officers out there that take care of our rights and provide an invaluable service. But there are some who have short tempers, poor understanding of their role, and are overly zealous when unnecessary.

It is the truth that these guys cause LEOs to get a bad rep.

I would not consent to a search under the circumstances described, because it is not out of the realm of possibility that something unforeseen could happen.

I can hardly wait to get the 'F' out of California.