initiative

[bald eagle]

I believe in California you can change laws via the initiative process.

How might such an initiative a la "In Defense of 2nd Amendment Act"
be properly worded to appeal to voters?

Is there enough support to pull it off?

[CWDraco]

About the only way to convince California to repeal these would be to show the ACTUAL cost all this is going to cost CA tax payers.

Keep in mind they made sure the financial consultants where not able to testify when voting on these bills. They knew the cost is astronomical and they would lose support if people knew what they voted for.

I think many Representatives would express a desire to change their vote if they knew the dollar amount... it would be disingenuous and they already know the cost, but they would use "plausible deniability" to justify their vote.

[glockman19]

I would be happy to use the initiative process to:
1) END Gut and Amend.
2) Eliminate the ability for the Legislature to "Suspend the Rules".
3) Some form of False Advertising. Politicians must be held accountable for misrepresentation.

Getting enough Californian's to support the 2A is difficult but getting them to support closing "Loopholes" in the legislative process is possible and a good place to start.

[bald eagle]

Good points.

Maybea lso if they knew these laws made them less safe?

See "A Gun Ban That Misfired" by Shapiro, and "Gun Violence by State", as well as LA Time article about gun violence already up 26% there this year.

[CitaDeL]

I believe in California you can change laws via the initiative process.

How might such an initiative a la "In Defense of 2nd Amendment Act"
be properly worded to appeal to voters?

Is there enough support to pull it off?

It would need $1.5 million to pay signature gatherers - On average $5 per signature to get your initiative on the ballot.

You will also need about $200K for advertising and support.

And after that you will have to rely on the average California voter to vote for your proposition to make it law. And after that, you have to withstand the legal challenge that your proposition will certainly instigate in our judiciary, where you are unlikely to prevail.

Is there enough support to pull it off?

[Jimi Jah]

Already tried that with prop 187.

[p7m8jg]

Didn't a SF Radio Host try to do this a few years back? Couldn't get people to sign the petitions.......

[BlueRidge62]

Short answer: no.


Laws, once passed, are like taxes. They are almost never removed or reversed.
Politicans will use the fear of them being reversed to further their own gains, but is just a BS show for votes. I have almost never seen a law reversed or a tax removed or lowered at the state level.

Sadly, these gun laws, like the one old Ronald Regan drafted in the 70's and the first modern California anti-gun law from 1989, are here to stay.

[kenl]

I would be happy to use the initiative process to:
1) END Gut and Amend.
2) Eliminate the ability for the Legislature to "Suspend the Rules".
3) Some form of False Advertising. Politicians must be held accountable for misrepresentation.

Getting enough Californian's to support the 2A is difficult but getting them to support closing "Loopholes" in the legislative process is possible and a good place to start.

I like these. Maybe add a clause that puts a time limit on ALL laws, and require a no-amendment-allowed vote to renew them. How does 10 years, and requiring a 2/3rds vote to keep the law sound? That would hopefully keep them busy enough to stop the plethora of useless to downright dangerous laws that are coming out now, and hopefully wipe out some of the worst.

[HardwoodRods]

I'm kind of partial to:
1) One Item, One Bill (no amendments, let it live or die by it's merits)
2) Term limits for all public offices (no more life time)

[BlueRidge62]

I'm kind of partial to:
1) One Item, One Bill (no amendments, let it live or die by it's merits)
2) Term limits for all public offices (no more life time)

IMHO term limits is one reason we have the mess we have today. There is little to lose for a politco if he knows he only has two terms max anyways.

Give them something to lose ( 10,20 even 30 years) in the state capital and they worry alot more about what the voters have to say.

[bald eagle]

I have been corresponding with the law professor who wrote "Second Amendment: Not Constitutional dysfunction....".

He suggests that legislation based on the 14th amendment might shut down the spate of State laws infringing on the right to keep and bear arms.

He also thinks we need National laws protecting types of firearms capable of fulfilling the intent of the 2nd amendment of civilian resistance to potentially abusive government, but that is another story.

[neouser]

I believe in California you can change laws via the initiative process.

How might such an initiative a la "In Defense of 2nd Amendment Act"
be properly worded to appeal to voters?

Is there enough support to pull it off?

Rename it to, "Protection of Civil Liberties Act" and you might get some traction. With the title you suggested, it won't go anywhere in this state.

[Occams Rasor]

It would need $1.5 million to pay signature gatherers - On average $5 per signature to get your initiative on the ballot.

You will also need about $200K for advertising and support.

And after that you will have to rely on the average California voter to vote for your proposition to make it law. And after that, you have to withstand the legal challenge that your proposition will certainly instigate in our judiciary, where you are unlikely to prevail.

Is there enough support to pull it off?

Assuming your number are correct lets round up to $2MM even.
There are 7MM gun owners in Calif. That come out to $0.28 per gun owner, or
one 9mm round. I am in. I will even go as high as one brick of .22LR or
$20.00
I would suggest we call the initiative "Reduction in Costly Bureaucracy ACT"
Include getting rid of the handgun roster, Ammo restrictions, ect

[seabee1]

Please check this thread out, it's about a signature gathering effort that is starting up for a veto referendum on the November ballot. we need 400K signatures by the end of September.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=18439741#post18439741