Off duty police brandishing firearm.

[Seesm]

Silva she sounds like a total WINNER... Nice Mom driving like a toolshed and causing all this mess....

[CA_Libertarian]

Can the police legally brandish their firearm to scare off potential criminals when off duty? Or how about being confronted by punks?

I once was involved in arresting a corrections officer for brandishing. He was drunk and decided to pick a fight in a night club, then realized the other guy was about to kick his ***, so he flashed his concealed firearm. Unfortunately, the victim didn't hang around when he found out the guy was a LEO, so no charges could be filed. The incident was reported to his Sgt, but I'm not sure if anything came of it.

[cubanos]

For a brandishing charge in violation of penal code section 417(a) one of the most important element is that it must be done in a , rude , angry or in threatening manner....Of course, if it is self defense no conviction but do not forget carrying a concealed firearm for us civillians ....You win the War ( the fight) but lose the battle( misdemeanor conviction)

[Rob454]

I think they have to have a good reason to pull out a weapon. I dont think they can jsut pull out a gun and wave it around screaming let me to the front of the line.
Rob

[Colt]

We don't retreat we reposition for tactical advantage.

Ah, the famous "retrograde maneuver!"

[haodoken]

I heard from my partner, who is a friend of White's, that Oceanside PD said he was justified in the shooting but the SD County DA (who wanted to make and example of him) pressed for the charges against him.

Even though we get to carry concealed, too much liability is put on LEOs for having an off-duty firearm. Sometimes it's better to be a good witness than get involved (Unless someone is about to be seriously hurt/killed).

I am so asking to be flamed for this but oh well... Let the anti-LEO rhetoric begin.

[mecam]

I heard from my partner, who is a friend of White's, that Oceanside PD said he was justified in the shooting but the SD County DA (who wanted to make and example of him) pressed for the charges against him.

Even though we get to carry concealed, too much liability is put on LEOs for having an off-duty firearm. Sometimes it's better to be a good witness than get involved (Unless someone is about to be seriously hurt/killed).

I am so asking to be flamed for this but oh well... Let the anti-LEO rhetoric begin.

Sometimes it's hard to understand which side the DA is on. I guess which ever favors in excelling their career.

[rbgaynor]

Sometimes it's hard to understand which side the DA is on. I guess which ever favors in excelling their career.

The DA down here isn't known for being hard on cops or seeking to make examples of them.

[ilbob]

as a practical matter there are rules for what police are allowed to do to and what us mere citizens are allowed to do, and they are radically different, regardless of what the law actually says.

[fairfaxjim]

What would be the outcome if it were a car full of gang bangers and not a woman and her child?? As for overreacting, that puts someone outside of the situation in the spot of making the judgement call after the fact - will never be the same call. In one sense, I can understand his instinct to pull the gun, but on the other hand, everyone was still inside the vehicles, and his wife had called 911. If a civilian had pulled and exhibited a firearm in that situation, the brandishing charge would definitely have been filed. If they had discharged the firearm, a whole host of firearms charges would have been filed, probably along with some assault w/deadly weapon, or similar charges. The reality is that if no one had exited their car or shot out of their car that night, no one whould have probably been injured, and Silva would have been arrested. If she was in a position where her playing destruction derby in the parking lot was about to injure someone outside of the vehicles, then the use of the firearm would be justified, but nothing in the report we have here indicates that existed. As a civilian, even with a CCW, I would not have drawn the gun in that situation, unless it escalated. As a civilian, without a CCW, I would definitely not have drawn a gun, and would most definitely have remained inside the vehicle. As soon as she had pulled alongside, I would have pulled ahead and parked in a regular parking space. Taking on nut jobs - or drunk nut jobs - in a public parking lot is a losing battle. I'm not an LEO, so I don't know what I would have done in that situation if I had been one - they still do have a duty to uphold the law while off duty.

As for the DA, they are political animals, and will react to what they perceive as political pressures as well as legal issues. I don't doubt that the DA perceives that having off duty cops shooting women and their children in the Lowe's parking lot has political implications.

The real bottom line is that when you empower people with arrest, and arm them, outside of their normal duty hours, you create a situation where

[DDT]

Even though we get to carry concealed, too much liability is put on LEOs for having an off-duty firearm. Sometimes it's better to be a good witness than get involved (Unless someone is about to be seriously hurt/killed).

My stepfather is retired LEO. Worked patrol his whole 20-something career.

By the last few years he came to feel the same way. He stopped helping people on the side of the road off-duty and never stepped in to any issue that might require him to take the lead. The one exception was when someone's life was in danger. He and my mom were out fishing on vacation in Kentucky and a small storm popped up out of nowhere. They watched a john boat capsize and were able to pull the fisherman out of the drink and saved his life. They even got written up in the local paper.

It is unfortunate that LEOs take so much crap for dedicating their lives to being mostly underpaid, under-appreciated and all too often demonized. They put their lives on the line and their families all pay a major price too.

99% of the population claims to be on the side of the individual cops but when push comes to shove and they are required to make a "real decision" everyone and their brother is 6 feet up their rectum trying to say they know exactly what the "right" thing to do was and tell you how they would have reacted with adrenaline pumping and bullets flying. Cops are human, some are corrupt, some get a kick out of being able to flash the badge but most are better than average guys who want to make a difference.

Some scumbag wants to tell a cop (or civilian) how they are supposed to react to a vehicle being driven by a drunk blocking off their retreat and then trying to run them down can suck my well you get the point.

The fact that she actually identified the guy she's running down as a cop should be enough to vindicate the guy. She knew who he was and continued to chase him down. Why she isn't up for attempted murder on a police officer is beyond me. SHE ID'd THE MAN ON THE 911 TAPE.

[Tallship]

Actually, the District Attorney, Bonnie Dumanis, is very pro-cop, and has in fact found every other OIS in San Diego justified. In this case, she was pressured by outside forces to recuse the DA's office from the case, and it is now being prosecuted by the state AG's office.

[Liberty1]

417. (a) (1) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the
presence of any other person, draws or exhibits any deadly weapon
whatsoever, other than a firearm, in a rude, angry, or threatening
manner, or who in any manner, unlawfully uses a deadly weapon other
than a firearm in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 30
days.
(2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is
punishable as follows:
(A) If the violation occurs in a public place and the firearm is a
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person, by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months and not more than one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(B) In all cases other than that set forth in subparagraph (A), a
misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less
than three months.
(b) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any loaded firearm in a rude,
angry, or threatening manner, or who, in any manner, unlawfully uses
any loaded firearm in any fight or quarrel upon the grounds of any
day care center, as defined in Section 1596.76 of the Health and
Safety Code, or any facility where programs, including day care
programs or recreational programs, are being conducted for persons
under 18 years of age, including programs conducted by a nonprofit
organization, during the hours in which the center or facility is
open for use, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison
for 16 months, or two or three years, or by imprisonment in a county
jail for not less than three months, nor more than one year.
(c) Every person who, in the immediate presence of a peace
officer, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded,
in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, and who knows, or reasonably
should know, by the officer's uniformed appearance or other action
of identification by the officer, that he or she is a peace officer
engaged in the performance of his or her duties, and that peace
officer is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, shall be
punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than nine
months and not to exceed one year, or in the state prison.
(d) Except where a different penalty applies, every person who
violates this section when the other person is in the process of
cleaning up graffiti or vandalism is guilty of a misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months nor more than one year.
(e) As used in this section, "peace officer" means any person
designated as a peace officer pursuant to Chapter 4.5 (commencing
with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
(f) As used in this section, "public place" means any of the
following:
(1) A public place in an incorporated city.
(2) A public street in an incorporated city.
(3) A public street in an unincorporated area.

[homerm14]

My stepfather is retired LEO. Worked patrol his whole 20-something career.

By the last few years he came to feel the same way. He stopped helping people on the side of the road off-duty and never stepped in to any issue that might require him to take the lead. The one exception was when someone's life was in danger. He and my mom were out fishing on vacation in Kentucky and a small storm popped up out of nowhere. They watched a john boat capsize and were able to pull the fisherman out of the drink and saved his life. They even got written up in the local paper.

It is unfortunate that LEOs take so much crap for dedicating their lives to being mostly underpaid, under-appreciated and all too often demonized. They put their lives on the line and their families all pay a major price too.

99% of the population claims to be on the side of the individual cops but when push comes to shove and they are required to make a "real decision" everyone and their brother is 6 feet up their rectum trying to say they know exactly what the "right" thing to do was and tell you how they would have reacted with adrenaline pumping and bullets flying. Cops are human, some are corrupt, some get a kick out of being able to flash the badge but most are better than average guys who want to make a difference.

Some scumbag wants to tell a cop (or civilian) how they are supposed to react to a vehicle being driven by a drunk blocking off their retreat and then trying to run them down can suck my well you get the point.

The fact that she actually identified the guy she's running down as a cop should be enough to vindicate the guy. She knew who he was and continued to chase him down. Why she isn't up for attempted murder on a police officer is beyond me. SHE ID'd THE MAN ON THE 911 TAPE.

Amen!