Court of Pulbic Opinion:Justifying gun ownership.

[nicki]

The battle for gun rights will happen in the urban areas of California and that it is in that public court of opinion that we will have to work.

Urban dwellers hear the NRA say "Guns don't kill people, people kill people", then they turn on the news and what do they see.

Sure, we are gearing up for legal battles, but we must also gear up for the court of public opinion.

Right now we shutter everytime there is a shooting because the firearms community has for many years avoided dealing with the real reasons we must maintain our rights to keep and bear arms.

While traditional gun political strategies will work in the rural parts of the state, they are ineffective, in many cases, counter productive in our urban areas.

The NRA and us have become the new scapegoats, it is our fault that the courts don't work, that we have violence on the streets, the the Drug Trade is out of control etc. etc.

Government policies don't work, so rather than fix the problems and piss off special interest, they have scapegoats(US).

When we gear up, we are not fighting for gun rights, we are fighting for all rights. What if we created a left wing gun rights movement.

We can say, sure guns kill, but if a government disarms the citizens, all rights now become government revocable privileges and in a Democracy, the tyranny of the majority will strip away your rights as quickly as any dictator will.

If you are targeted by the government as a enemy of the state, the majority will side with the government regardless of how extreme the government goes.

Just a few thoughts.

Nicki

[Theseus]

Understand the TRUE purpose of gun control though and you will see why the urban areas are anti-gun.

Gun control is not about right...it is about CONTROL! These people get their paychecks from the government that takes their guns and makes them victims. You think they want to bite the hand that feeds them?

They will drink their kool-aid and continue to spew anti-gun rhetoric UNLESS you organize them and give them guns to help them clean up their streets....help them break the victim cycle and do it WITH guns. Only then will they change their minds.. . . but still not if they get a government supplied meal ticket.

[CapS]

Thanks Nicki: good thread.

Among other things, we need to continue to beat the drum that the NRA started: This is a civil rights issue. Now, post-Heller, that should resonate more strongly the more we press it.

SCOTUS says RKBA is an individual right. We must do everything we can to frame our public relations with this in mind: We are a minority whose rights are under attack.

/Cap

[grammaton76]

When we gear up, we are not fighting for gun rights, we are fighting for all rights. What if we created a left wing gun rights movement.

Your first paragraph was precisely spot-on, as long as "we" is restricted to the lefties. There does really need to be a left wing gun rights movement, but due to human realities it won't happen in a right-of-center atmosphere (which any "big tent" site like Calguns is going to be). Too many lefties get cranky, leave or decide that all gun owners are "wingnuts", etc. A healthy leftie environment (which Guntards could have become but didn't) would nurture and educate a cadre of pro-gun leftists who can speak to people the average gun owner can't.

We can say, sure guns kill, but if a government disarms the citizens, all rights now become government revocable privileges and in a Democracy, the tyranny of the majority will strip away your rights as quickly as any dictator will.

Unfortunately, by and large the left believes we have "evolved past" the need for armed action against a tyrannical government, and if you go feeding them this right away, you will be yourself instantly marginalized as a right-wing nutcase. Now, it would be possible for lefties to lead their compatriots into this belief eventually, but in the meantime I feel that the best route into the left's mindshare is via groups such as the Pink Pistols, etc.

Anyway, I would very much like there to be a point in time where I may vote on non-2A issues because whether the D or R wins in my district, both will be pro-gun.

At any rate, at present this isn't going to get accomplished. Way too much friction happens between left and right due to the fact that although left and right gunnies agree on guns, they disagree about most other things. It somewhat annoys me how much energy gets wasted on fighting back and forth on non gun related issues. In particular... guys, I don't like Obama and I agree with fighting tooth and nail against him before the election... but he won. Let's worry about upcoming issues; examining his past won't change the future.

Left and right gun folks are yin and yang. In order to achieve an ideal end, both sides must be strong enough to whip their respective politicians into order. However, at the same time we are opposites in many ways, and outside of gun issues it is foolhardy to believe that our ranks will ever be unified ideologically. I can only see efficient action on the left happening re: gun rights if the left has a gun board where they can talk amongst themselves (including about that 75% or so of their beliefs which the right doesn't like) without a bunch of friction from the majority of gun owners (which happen to slant right due to population).

Anyway, I see that there's no need for fighting and no need to try some haphazard Frankenstein experiment of separate forums and separate rules within Calguns... just a separate left board, with friendly links to each other and a very firm rule of not trash-talking each other. I will state for the record that I feel Calguns is as politically center as a gun board can possibly be without culling folks ruthlessly on both sides, and a "big tent" board can't really do that.

Hmm, leftguns.net is available... just a thought.

[BillCA]

The battle for gun rights will happen in the urban areas of California and that it is in that public court of opinion that we will have to work.
...
Sure, we are gearing up for legal battles, but we must also gear up for the court of public opinion.
...
When we gear up, we are not fighting for gun rights, we are fighting for all rights.

Regardless of left/right/center politics, you are correct in that we need to address the issue as a civil rights issue.

In that sense, we can enlist the aid of people who's politics are left-of-center and/or have experience with civil rights activism. The Pink Pistols have created some messages that are poignant.

While the fight for incorporation is underway, we should be thinking up web-ads that can be placed on many websites as well as in print.

As an example...
Text on the screen, for five seconds reads:

No person may purchase more than one handgun in a 30-day period.

Now, transition by fading in new text.

No person may express more than one opinion in a 30-day period.

Then, fade back to the original message and add a new line underneath it.

If you can't exercise your rights when needed, what good are they?
Fight for your civil rights.
www.some_website_here.org

[Ironchef]

Thanks Nicki, this has been my position all along. I'll join the NRA when they start putting out prime time commercials showing how ridiculous gun legislation is and other commercials supporting gun culture.

I believe public opinion is WAY more important than fighting in courts. Same goes for the ACLU..if they did the above described things, I'd join.

[movie zombie]

Regardless of left/right/center politics, you are correct in that we need to address the issue as a civil rights issue.

In that sense, we can enlist the aid of people who's politics are left-of-center and/or have experience with civil rights activism. The Pink Pistols have created some messages that are poignant.

While the fight for incorporation is underway, we should be thinking up web-ads that can be placed on many websites as well as in print.

As an example...
Text on the screen, for five seconds reads:

No person may purchase more than one handgun in a 30-day period.

Now, transition by fading in new text.

No person may express more than one opinion in a 30-day period.

Then, fade back to the original message and add a new line underneath it.

If you can't exercise your rights when needed, what good are they?
Fight for your civil rights.
www.some_website_here.org

agree 100%

movie zombie

[Hopi]

agree 100%

movie zombie

another in agreement.



Love the new sigline MZ.......

[Annie Oakley]

Nicki, I totally agree with you that the way gun ownership is perceived in our society is generally based on public perception, and that perception creates an opinion that seems to be self perpetuating. The question is what or who is the source of this myopic perception, and what can we do to fix it ? I agree that the first thing that is important is that the second amendment not be viewed as a conservative or liberal issue. It should be a human rights issue in that we as human beings have the natural right to self defense. The next thing that should be stressed is that a gun in the hand of an honest law abiding person is not the source of violence with guns, nor are guns in our society in and of themselves a source of violence. Since government has failed to do this, we as activists should stress that evil people are those that would use a gun to rob, and murder a person that was never a threat to them. Use the concept of the "Scarlet Letter" to not only jail, but cast shame on evil violent people. I would also suggest that the media has been a source of bathing gun owners in a less than stellar light. On TV or in the movies, the only people who have guns, (other than police or military) are drug dealers, murderers, thieves, and crazy people. I'm sorry if this is turning into a rant, but if people compare how guns were viewed as late as the 60's versus the present, it's easy to understand why our societies view of guns has changed. We used to have heroes like the "Lone Ranger", Roy Rogers, and John Wayne, that used a gun to fight evil. Stress was placed on the guy in the white hat. And now what do we have, people like eminem, and 50 cents, who promote gang violence and the oppression of and violence against women. What else will companies like "Death Row Records" come up with to sell this propaganda. Why can't we hold up the average person as a hero like those during the LA riots that stood their ground with guns against evil violent people that burned and pillaged and were stopped by modern minutemen because the police couldn't do it on their own.

Unfortunately, politicians like Barrack Obama, Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Ted Kennedy, Diane Feinstein, Joe Biden, and Barbara Boxer, along with the Brady's and the VPC write the propaganda, and the MSM gives them the resources to spread the disinformation. Just as unfortunate, people who choose to be apathetic, accept these lies as truth, and react because that is what they are told to do. The NRA is viewed as a fringe organization who promotes gun violence by fighting against "reasonable gun legislation", and so we are told to ignore an organization of 4 million American gun owners. But of course antigun people will not mention that among those 4 million gun owners are police, military, and those that train them. They also fail to mention and in fact discount programs like "Eddie Eagle" who teach children about guns by telling them to STOP, DON'T TOUCH, LEAVE THE AREA, and TELL AN ADULT. Instead the Brady's and the VPC write articles that make outlandish claims that "Eddie Eagle" is promoting gun ownership and present Eddie Eagle as "Joe Camel with Feathers."

I'm sorry everyone for going off topic, but I am passionate about this, and I think that everyone who owns a gun should be passionate about this also.

I'll stop here and say that if you like your guns, go to your nearest mirror, point a finger at the person you see there, and challenge her or him to do more to protect the second amendment. And then find an antigunner and take them shooting.

[Librarian]

Thanks Nicki, this has been my position all along. I'll join the NRA when they start putting out prime time commercials showing how ridiculous gun legislation is and other commercials supporting gun culture.

That would be useful. A couple of years back, NRA produced a tape somewhat along those lines, and I actually sent them some extra money to support that kind of effort.

Now, tell me how we get the TV stations in California to accept advertising or PSAs from the NRA, or from anyone, with that content?

I believe public opinion is WAY more important than fighting in courts. Same goes for the ACLU..if they did the above described things, I'd join.

Politicians will follow public opinion. Shaping public opinion is what we need.

[Bad Voodoo]

Now, tell me how we get the TV stations in California to accept advertising or PSAs from the NRA, or from anyone, with that content?

Aren't they required by law to air it, if the spot is paid for? That's the argument I hear to support the liberal-esque commercials I hear on conservative talk radio.

[Theseus]

Media outlets are businesses, more often than not all you need do is pay the fee and they will air just about anything. . .

That would be useful. A couple of years back, NRA produced a tape somewhat along those lines, and I actually sent them some extra money to support that kind of effort.

Now, tell me how we get the TV stations in California to accept advertising or PSAs from the NRA, or from anyone, with that content?



Politicians will follow public opinion. Shaping public opinion is what we need.

[Librarian]

Media outlets are businesses, more often than not all you need do is pay the fee and they will air just about anything. . .

Until "they" try to revive the 'fairness' laws, the businesses are free to reject anything they want to reject. And they do, pretty consistently, reject anything pro-gun.

There's an East Bay gun store that gets a pro-gun radio ad on lately, and a few years ago CRPA had their 'We're all better off when the bad guys don't know who's carrying' billboard campaign, but that's all I've ever heard or seen in the SF area in ~20 years here.

[Annie Oakley]

Do you suppose that things like this are considered in the court of public opinion ? How many people here listen to this ?

Please forgive me for the harsh language, but it is what people listen to.

50 Cent Banks Victory Lyrics
Featuring: Lloyd Banks Lyrics
Songwriters: N/A

[50 Cent]
Yo, yo we can't stay alive forever
So if **** hit the fan then we might as well die together
I'm high as ever, more hoes and more cheddar
G-Unit move around wit them pounds and berreta's
Yea ***got, if I want it I'm gon' have it
Regardless if it's handed to me or I gotta grab it
Don't make a *** outta yaself tryin to stop me
I'm cocky, raps rocky, nigga you sloppy
You know that I'm, 8 levels above you nigga
I'll club you nigga, I never heard of you nigga, its ugly nigga
I'm the wrong one to provoke
You rattin on niggas is only gon' leave you smoked
So the only thing left now is toast for these cowrads
I got no friends, **** most of these cowards
They pop **** 'till we start approaching these cowards
While we lay around dollars, they lay around flowers

[Lloyd Banks]
I got a intergangstress who argue and steams wit reefer
And who flip when I call a ***** like she Queen Latifah
Not all the vehicle's is long enough to stash the streetsweeper
This **** can get uglier than the Master P sneaker
We slidin through the ruckus, wit prada on the chuckus
Soon as spring break ho's home from college wanna **** us
I ain't here to drop knowledge on you suckas
I'll sick rottweiler's on you ****as, cops followin to cuff us
Top dollars to discuss this, whole lotta zeros
When it comes to paper I blow a soul outta aero
I'ma break before I lay floor berry
Besides, every rapper ain't a star, nigga plad ain't bulbary
You can't tame Lloyd, smokin by the big screen
You changin the channel looks like I'm playin the game boy
I know the rocks botherin ya vision
But reach and I'll put a dot on ya head like its part of yo religion
Why party wit a pigeon?
I'm blowin a 10 'cause Bush handin flyers for a party in a prison
I'm in the gucci vest wit the green and red straps
I'm the last rapper to scare niggas since Craig Mack
Now every morning's a fast start
And there aint problem gettin dressed 'cause my closet got more aisles than pathmark
Run, move startin to raid
and leave wit 12 shells in ya mouth like a carton of eggs
I'm the young pimp pardon my age
I don't got long hair but if I did she be partin my braids
We just find out what club they at
take 'em wit us, and run a train on 'em like a subway mat
yer advance is a grey acura
these record labels got most artists gettin ****ed like the gay rappa'
i go to college on a tour
I'm goin down in history nigga, next to Wallace and Shakur
I keep ya ammo clean, tec's polished in the drawer
Camera's by the hamper that mine into the floor
by now, you probably heard of me
fresh outta surgery, flashy as a ****, you gon' have to murder me
Burglary, were leavin wit cha nike's burgandy, White T, burgandy
you match now, back down
niggas love to hate you, but love you when you disappear
catch me on the boat wit weed smoke and fishing gear
heavy when I toke, C notes from different years
Besly in the robe, re-motes for liftin chairs
We ain't rich, but we be glad to snatch ya
I send cars to your crib like I'm a cab dispatcha
you better off wit ya stupid guys, lookin for a coupe to drive
you ain't gettin nuttin but ya french fries supersized
it's a damn shame y'all still local
I'm in a million dollar studio layin my vocals
Nigga

[50 Cent]
Still in the projects nigga, you ain't goin nowhere
you gon' ****in be there for the rest of yo mutha****in life
and yo momma said, I'm supposed to tell you somethin.....
to encourage you, somethin positive
aight well I ain't gon' lie to you mutha****a, he ain't goin nowhere
get yaself a beer, get on the ****in curb
****in dirtbag

Maybe the court of public opinion should just ignore this. After all, it's just "entertainment".

[Bad Voodoo]

I'd support a CGF sponsored commercial marketing effort.