Had the break out "the flow chart" today

[CAL.BAR]

Yes - at the On Target in Laguna Niguel. I've been shooting there for years with registered AW's and my new OLL's. However today, after the usual pistol tournament, I was sighting in the aimpoint on my Vector .40 (MP5 clone) when one of the kind "lawyers" on staff there made an effort to come running out from behind the desk to ask me "is that registered". I said, no, it's not an AW"
He says "it looks like it is to me" I showed him where Chris at Lanworld (thank very much) sheered off the mag release paddle on the bottom so that you need a screwdriver to pry the mag out. THen showed him the pinned 10/30's.

He says "we don't mind what you shoot here, but I'm telling you it's a felony. . .it's your life man."

On my way out I gave our "lawyer" friend a CG flowchart and said he could refer to it if he had any questions. He said "oh, I don't have ANY questions, but thank you."

SO. . . how often do people render unsolicited medical advice if they are not doctors? How many times have you been stopped by folks randomly giving engineering advice when they are counter clerks? However, complicated legal advice from a counter clerk (a mis-informed counter clerk) is ok?

Don't get me wrong, I love On Target. The owner there is a great proponent of CCW and shooter's rights, but allowing his "lawyers" to give out unsolicited and inaccurate legal advice is troubling.

[383green]

how often do people render unsolicited medical advice if they are not doctors?

Have you ever heard of Homeopathy? That snake-oil quackery is commonly sold over the counter at any drug store or supermarket, amazingly enough.

How many times have you been stopped by folks randomly giving engineering advice when they are counter clerks?

This happens all the time at places like Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. Given that I am an actual electrical engineer, it really boggles my mind when they spout absurd BS and then actually argue with me over it!

Anyway, good job on standing your ground and trying to educate the counter-lawyer. It may not have worked, but the best that you can do is to try!

[NiteQwill]

Reason #9087872 I do not like On-target. Their staff is rude, incompetent, and clueless.

They KNOW people shoot OLLs on their range. Hell, they require you to PAY for a permit to shoot a rifle there. Now, the lawyer-clerk gives you BS about your rifle.

ugh.

Another reason to stay away.

I make the extra effort to drive 25 minutes south and shoot at Iron Sights, they probably have the most friendliest staff at a range I have EVER done business with. Not to mention, their staff doesn't spread FUD, if they can't answer your question they find someone who can instead of beating around the bush.

[timdps]

Don't get me wrong, I love On Target. The owner there is a great proponent of CCW and shooter's rights, but allowing his "lawyers" to give out unsolicited and inaccurate legal advice is troubling.

You might want to mention this to the owner in an attempt to cut down on the FUD.

tim

[BroncoBob]

Good job on standing your ground and not backing down. Sooner or later the FUD crap will go away from the uneducated and "staff lawyers"

[EOD3]

It's not what he doesn't know that bothers me, it's what he thinks he knows and is dead wrong about that concerns me.

Or words to that effect.

[sorensen440]

It drives me nutz when people are wrong and are unwilling to even consider for a second that they are
you should have left the flowchart with him anyways...

[CAL.BAR]

It drives me nutz when people are wrong and are unwilling to even consider for a second that they are
you should have left the flowchart with him anyways...

I definately left the flowchart with him (I carry extras for cases such as this) and I will speak with the owner when I get a chance. They also charged me to shoot in the tournament ($15.00) then charged me ANOTHER $15.00 to stay a few extra minutes to sight the carbine - never had that happen before either.

[Bad Voodoo]

He said "oh, I don't have ANY questions, but thank you."

Well of course he doesn't. Being a "range attorney" and all, he has ALL the answers and you're just the sugar daddy paying for the privilege of utilizing his facility. You silly citizen, you.

[tombinghamthegreat]

Good job standing your ground. From my experence the people spreading FUD is the other people at the range claiming its illegal BS. A quick reminder of the flowchart or tell them that the store is selling the same gun shuts them up.

[postal16]

Not to defend them, but when I was in OC the previous owner's son was arrested for selling illegal (not OLL) AWs from the back door of that facility...so I know they are paraniod. I was also there about 4 years ago when a gentleman was shooting a AR15 carbine, and as he was checking out a DOJ agent who was there doing a inspection of the owners asked him for his regestration paperwork, and he stated he did not have it and I saw the agent cuff and take him away. Never heard what happened to him.

So this is where their FUD comes from. If you go back ask for Greg, he is the owner, and I am sure he will appreciate the info.

I must day I do enjoy shooting a Sac Valley now, where the ROs are all well versed on the OLL legality and don't hassel us :-) Also where it is only $100/yr (no app fee) to join vs. the $300/yr On-target was for a 25-yard range vs the several 100 yd + ranges at Sac Valley (including the 1,000 yard with target pits)

[hawk1]

Not to defend them, but when I was in OC the previous owner's son was arrested for selling illegal (not OLL) AWs from the back door of that facility...so I know they are paraniod. I was also there about 4 years ago when a gentleman was shooting a AR15 carbine, and as he was checking out a DOJ agent who was there doing a inspection of the owners asked him for his regestration paperwork, and he stated he did not have it and I saw the agent cuff and take him away. Never heard what happened to him.

So this is where their FUD comes from. If you go back ask for Greg, he is the owner, and I am sure he will appreciate the info.

I must day I do enjoy shooting a Sac Valley now, where the ROs are all well versed on the OLL legality and don't hassel us :-) Also where it is only $100/yr (no app fee) to join vs. the $300/yr On-target was for a 25-yard range vs the several 100 yd + ranges at Sac Valley (including the 1,000 yard with target pits)

At what point did they give 'DOJ inspection agents' the right to cuff and detain? Or in your words 'take him away'?

[M. Sage]

Pretty sure the DOJ auditors are LEOs.

[cadurand]

The bottom line is, people should mind their own business.

If a paying customer is shooting at your range, and doing things safely, let him be. If you suspect his weapon is configured in some illegal manner that's for the cops to worry about.

I can't stand it when people want to tattle on each other. How about we all just get along and live our lives?

[Titans]

Not to defend them, but when I was in OC the previous owner's son was arrested for selling illegal (not OLL) AWs from the back door of that facility...so I know they are paraniod.

Actually I know the guy you speak of and from what he says after the AW ban they had to register there AW's and he had left this task to one of his trusted employees who "missed" 3-4 rifles in the back. When they came in to do the inspection they discovered the unregistered rifles and charged him. He spent a year in jail and lost his licensing to continue the business.