I feel like I'm getting scammed! Re: Gun Safe Afadavit

[Dark&Good]

I might be slipping over something here... according to the quoted laws at Librarian's link above, a safe is good enough. What am I missing?

[HowardW56]

I might be slipping over something here... according to the quoted laws at Librarian's link above, a safe is good enough. What am I missing?

Re-read the Federal portion of the laws. Thats where the problem comes up. A safe is good if you buy one with each gun purchase...

[Dark&Good]

Gee. Right.
Plain stupid "law".

[RHT447]

[taloft]

I further inquired if there was any Federal requirement that the lock had be on anybody's certified list, and/or if any documentation was required. The answer was "No."

I then asked "How do you enforce this?" The answer was "The only way we can enforce this is if we happen to be standing outside a shop and actually see a handgun picked up and leave without a lock."

The irony here is that the CA DOJ requires that any gun lock sold has to be on the certified list. As a result, any gun locks sold to satisfy the BATFE requirements have to be on the CA DOJ certified roster even though the BATFE could care less. I wish the Feds would quit screwing around and just adopt a safe affidavit already.

[weekend_plinker]

go to walmart buy a lock dont open it . and return it after you pick up the gun. that why you get your gun and dont have to pay there high fee for a $5 dollar lock

[Librarian]

So, since you seem able to get someone to talk to you, would you please call them back and say "Since the actual law about the 'secure gun storage or safety device' says a gun safe satisfies the requirement, when will ATF have a way to document that a buyer is using his already-purchased safe?"

Maybe, just maybe, if they get hundreds of contacts on the issue they'll create an answer.

[halifax]

There is a slight problem here: the dealer is the one with the onus of providing the lock. CA dealers are not allowed to even have non-certified locking devices on-hand for customers. If a non-certified locking device came with the firearm, it must be removed and disposed of. Therefore, the CA dealer cannot provide anything but a CA certified lock.

It is true that there is no "Federal requirement that the lock had be on anybody's certified list, and/or if any documentation was required." but CA dealers must still comply with CA law.

The ATF only cares about Federal requirements. CA dealers must obey both Federal and State requirements.

[DDT]

Only a fool would own a weapon without a lock and/or a safe to allow you safely store and transport a weapon.
[/sarcasm]

http://www.customreceipt.com/

[Knauga]

If the handgun is 'used' then this will not work. Used requires an approved lock (and receipt) purchased within 30 days.

Bought 3, sold 1 that way. Two of those transactions were at different Turners even. All 4 transactions were PPT of "used" firearms. The only concern they had was that it MUST be CA Approved, the locks were and the FFL just noted on the DROS the type of lock included in the transaction.

If you are buying a gun (new or used) that does not come with a lock, you must provide one and proof that it was purchased within 30 days at pick up.

[MindBuilder]

Sell and buy a safe

How about if before you buy your gun, you sell your safe to the gun store for full market value. Then the gun store can sell it back to you with the gun. If you don't actually bring the safe to the store then ATF could complain that the dealer doesn't even know if the safe exists. But if you sign a safe affidavit then that might be sufficiently reasonable basis for the dealer to believe you actually have the safe. For most laws such an end run would not be acceptable, but since both federal and California laws permit safes as acceptable storage solutions, maybe the affidavit and a receipt would be considered passable in court. Perhaps some other evidence like the safe instruction manual and a picture would help support the dealers belief in the existence of the safe.

One problem could be that if you sell your safe to the dealer at full market value, you may have to pay sales tax on the transaction both ways. But I think there might not be sales tax on used goods. You could possibly sell it for a penny. But if sales taxes are due then that might be considered tax evasion. I'm pretty sure it used to be and probably still is the case that private party sales of used goods (like garage sales) in California aren't taxed. If that's the case and if a receipt is sufficient, then maybe you could bring a receipt showing your purchase of a safe from your friend.

[hawk1]

Bought 3, sold 1 that way. Two of those transactions were at different Turners even. All 4 transactions were PPT of "used" firearms. The only concern they had was that it MUST be CA Approved, the locks were and the FFL just noted on the DROS the type of lock included in the transaction.

If you are buying a gun (new or used) that does not come with a lock, you must provide one and proof that it was purchased within 30 days at pick up.

I'm glad this worked for you. We both can agree that finding two FFL's that do the same thing is rare. I may even give this a try at some point if I have the need.
Thanks for the info.

[kmca]

The way I understand it, the safe affidavit satisfies the California requirement and, if the gun comes in a lockable case, any old lock can satisfy the federal requirement. So, if you have a safe, there is no requirement for a certified lock, purchased within the 30 days.

[Hanniballs]

easy solution.

-go to big5 and purchase a gun lock
-pickup firearm
-return to big5 and return lock.

[DDT]

I bought an Off List Lower (OLL) receiver at a local gun store recently. The clerk sold me a gun lock for $9, then opened the package, looped the lock through the OLL, locked it, handed me the key, and then I was free to go.

Was it a "pistol" OLL?