NOTE: legal complexities w/ArmsUnlimited "Calif Retractable Extract./Eject. Tool"

[bwiese]

Folks,

There' s a new "BulletButton" 'tool' being marketed by Arms Unlimited. This was just pointed out to me by a good friend.

https://www.armsunlimited.com/AU-CA-Fast-Retractable-Extraction-Ejection-Tool-p/ca-free.htm

This device specifically mounts somewhere to rifle's Picatinny rail and has the BB "tool" on a retractable cord.

We've at CGF, over the past 6-7 years, warned that any "tool" used to activate a maglock [BulletButton, RaddLock, etc]
should not be attached in any way to a maglock'd semauto centerfire rifle or maglocked semiauto pistol. There
is risk of triggering AW status.

This means you should NOT, for example, have a screwdriver dangling from dental floss from your AR, or anything like that.

[Did you mount a pic rail on your belt or shooting jacket or watch or toolbox? Fine, then this device from AU would be OK
in that ultraspecific usage.]

Lack of constructive possession on CA-legal OLLs - meaning a separated-from-gun item used to maniuplate the gun without
triggering AW status - has a converse, where "if it's part of the gun and operates on the gun" then the gun can be regarded
as a 'semiauto centerfire rifle that has a detachable magazine". The logic and regulation that surrounds the legality of the
BB maglock works against a "built-in tool".

This is just not quite as visibly egregious as the magnetic maglock override" 'felony buttons' ("WonderWrench", "SuperTool",
"AR Mag Magnet" etc. some of whose users (of whatever brand) have been convicted of AW violations.

I hope to contact the vendor and discuss the issues with this product but I felt this needed to be noted ASAP.

Again,
- just because nobody's arrested doesn't make this legal in its depicted usage
- there's a chance nobody will ever be arrested/convicted
- WHY TAKE THE CHANCE? THERE'S SIGNIFICANT RISK/NO GAIN.


If you have one already, and don't wear a Pic rail on your belt or shooting jacket or watch or whatnot, I'd not
really have this in my immediate possession /near the gun, either. What with the tightening of various possession
scenarios with the Nguyen case, there's even less reason to push the envelope.


[Note that the above statements specifically do not include/refer to the "nubbin-at-the-bottom-of-the-mag" tools
sold by Thordsen and others. In these specific cases, such 'tools' cannot be used while on the maglock'd firearm
to operate the BB - since that specific device is locked in place. Only *another* nubbin tool external to the gun can
be used, on a freestanding magazine, and once the in-place mag is unlocked/removed it has the same status as any
other 'nubbinized' freestanding magazine.]

[cdtx2001]

Thanks for the heads up Bill.

[JonW]

You can make a dozen of those for $12.99 and they can attach to your jacket/vest/shirt/pants and avoid any questions.

I've made these and I use a MagPul dummy round attached to it with a keyring. Quick to use and you just "drop" it after ejecting the mag and it goes right back to where you'll expect to grab it for the next mag change.

http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/681223/Office-Depot-Brand-Retracting-ID-Card/

[mabilis_matulis]

Got it.. Thanks👍

[SkyHawk]

They made a promotional post about it on Calguns earlier today

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1125765

You can make a dozen of those for $12.99 and they can attach to your jacket/vest/shirt/pants and avoid any questions.

I've made these and I use a MagPul dummy round attached to it with a keyring. Quick to use and you just "drop" it after ejecting the mag and it goes right back to where you'll expect to grab it for the next mag change.

http://www.officedepot.com/a/product...cting-ID-Card/

I've thrown away more of those Office Depot cheapies than I care to count - they always break.

Now I only use USA made quality retracts with coated braided steel cables.

This is one of my retract BB tools, I attach it to anything *but* the gun.



Another good retract is the Nikon range finder tether - I use these for various things I don't want to lose but must use often, FOB cards for data centers etc. They come in black or various camo. Also very strong retract and braided steel & coated cable. You can occasionally find them around $12 - $15.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Nikon-Retractable-Rangefinder-Tether/720499.uts?productVariantId=1714303&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=36-109641978-2

[stix213]

I'm all for innovation, but having it attached to the rifle would make it part of the rifle itself. By using a part of the rifle itself to release the magazine, you're dropping the mag without a tool. I am not a lawyer.

[ArmsUnlimited]

Mr. Davis did provide the cautionary warnings against the practice of leaving the “tool” within or attached to the magazine releasing device (i.e., the bullet button), or even merely attached to the firearm due to the fact that an overzealous District Attorney could subject the individual to criminal prosecution for possessing and/or manufacturing “assault weapon.” He also stated that even though attaching the “tool” on the firearm does require the use of the “tool” to release the magazine, there are some District Attorney's and law enforcement officers out there that are always seeking test cases to expand the scope of these laws. While I believe that such an application would exceed the law, we neither condone nor promote the use of this device within California. However, seeing that many Californians enjoy their shooting activities beyond our state borders, this device provides an easy alternative for such sporting enthusiasts. But, due to the concerns expressed here, we are updating our website to include the following warning:

WARNING: We advise against the practice of leaving the “tool” within or attached to the magazine releasing device (i.e., the bullet button) while within the state of California. Due to the ambiguity in California's "assault weapon" laws, any law enforcement officer could subject the individual to criminal prosecution for possessing and/or manufacturing “assault weapon” if used improperly, or possessed with illegal intent to manufacture an "assault weapon."

[ArmsUnlimited]

All the concerns raised are appreciate and taken into consideration and we will make any appropriate changes as we do not want to see anyone in trouble

It is still my opinion that this is perfectly legal and many of these over reaching opinions are unfortunately the same arguments the anti-gunners use against us when simple logic tells you this is nothing more than an emergency tool attached to the rifle. If anything it forces compliance by having an automatic retracting feature that prevents the user from leaving the tool in the bullet button

Alot of good ideas here I just wish they were used more for innovating against the regulations rather than building them up bigger

[Mossy Man]

i use a gpik

[wireless]

Or anyone could just buy a standard magazine release, use bullet button the traditional way, and switch to standard mag release for out of state/shtf.

[bwiese]

Thanks to ArmsUnlimited for being a class act, standing up, talking to counsel, and
then manning up and offering appropriate warnings/nuances.

Would that many other vendors of far more controversial product stood up like this.

Thank you again, ArmsUnlimited.

[dreyna14]

This makes no sense, whatsoever. By that logic, this would be illegal.

[curtisfong]

This makes no sense, whatsoever. By that logic, this would be illegal.

That magazine has to be detached from the firearm to be used as a tool.

[riderr]

This makes no sense, whatsoever. By that logic, this would be illegal.

This one seem to be ok, since you can't use it unless you take it out of the gun completely (requires physical separation). Yet, you can't remove it without another tool used.

[bwiese]

This one seem to be ok, since you can't use it unless you take it out of the gun completely (requires physical separation). Yet, you can't remove it without another tool used.

Yup - fine.