Unloaded open carry while in car?

[HooYah]

Can you open carry an unloaded firearm in a holster while driving or riding in a vehicle? Under the law, is it considered the same as open carrying while walking around town?

[ENTHUSIAST]

As long as you are not knowingly within a 1000' from a K-12 school zone I believe... someone correct me if I am wrong.

[diginit]

No! Handguns must be in a locked case while transporting. Unloaded.
You can carry a rifle though.

[CalCop]

No! Handguns must be in a locked case while transporting. Unloaded.
You can carry a rifle though.

Wrong...the law says if you carry concealed within a vehicle, it must be in a locked container. However, there is no such restriction on open carry within a vehicle. Here is the law:

12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

An unloaded gun out in the open on the vehicle seat is NOT concealed...it is the same as open carry on the hip, which is legal except in certain restricted areas.

The CA jury instructions for carrying concealed within a vehicle:

The defendant is charged [in Count ______] with unlawfully carrying a concealed firearm within a vehicle.
To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People must prove that:
1. The defendant carried within a vehicle a firearm capable of being concealed on the person;
2. The defendant knew the firearm was in the vehicle;
3. The firearm was substantially concealed within the vehicle;
AND
4. The vehicle was under the defendant's control or direction.

Just make sure that the gun is not concealed on your person. If it was open carried on a belt holster outside of the car, don't get into the car and have your "wrap-around" racing seats conceal the weapon on your hip. Make sure it is in plain view.

[nicki]

open carry in car.

This is a practice I am not going to even consider participating in regardless of answers until we get a win with Nordyke first.

My question, what are restictions on Ammo? Does the ammo have to be "locked" so it is not accessible or can you have in laying in your passenger seat for semi quick access

My gut tells me that even if the law is on our side, we will get alot of police harassment.

Nicki

.

[Librarian]

Nicely done, CalCop. Where do you get the jury instructions?

[CSACANNONEER]

Nicki,

I believe that you live in or around SF. If I'm correct about that, I would caution against any type of UOC until things change up there. It's not worth the legal headaches.

As far as ammo goes, I know of no law restricting how ammo is transported. There are some good common sense ways to carry ammo that can keep you from being hassled by an ignorant LEO but, I've been know to carry ammo in every compartment, door pocket, and open space of my vehicles. I've got to be careful opening my doors or ammo falls out. I'm not kidding about that!

[CalCop]

Nicely done, CalCop. Where do you get the jury instructions?

Go to this website:http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/jury/cri...yinstructions/

Click on link Complete Text of the 2008 Criminal Jury Instructions Go to page 1748 of 2439.

[edwardm]

Heller and Nordyke have nothing to do with UOC in a vehicle. All that is pertinent is currently found in a handful of California cases and PC12020 ff. Once the facts are established it becomes as pure a legal argument as you can get, i.e. see PC 12027 for exceptions.

This is a practice I am not going to even consider participating in regardless of answers until we get a win with Nordyke first.

My question, what are restictions on Ammo? Does the ammo have to be "locked" so it is not accessible or can you have in laying in your passenger seat for semi quick access

My gut tells me that even if the law is on our side, we will get alot of police harassment.

Nicki

.

[VegasND]

How things have changed. Back in the '70s I often just tossed my unloaded pistol, in its holster, up on my dash and tossed my bag with the mags in it in the bed of my pickup. Never had a cop even mention it the couple of times I was pulled over like that. I just assumed they saw the empty mag well and went on about business. After joining and reading here, I wouldn't even consider trying that today.

[Mike Stollenwerk]

This is a practice I am not going to even consider participating in regardless of answers until we get a win with Nordyke first.

My question, what are restictions on Ammo? Does the ammo have to be "locked" so it is not accessible or can you have in laying in your passenger seat for semi quick access

My gut tells me that even if the law is on our side, we will get alot of police harassment.

Nicki

.

Even if Nordyke holds that the Second Amendment provides an individual right to bear arms applicable to state power this holding is not binding on any state court, not even California state courts, hence Nordyke is not relevant to this discussion.

Every gun owner in California should become familiar with People v. Knight, avalaible at http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/...es/c045858.pdf, establishing that not only can you lawfully open carry handguns in vehicles in California, but you can openly carry LOADED handguns in vehciles in unincorporated areas (except through areas explicitly made off limits to shooting by Counties).

Further, if a police officer commences a search of you and your vehicle to determine if your handgun is loaded, and you are not in an area where such conduct is unlawful, then fruits of this search, even drugs, will be suppressed as a Fourth amendment violation. And Nordyke or not ,you could subsequently sue the police for damages for such Fourth Amendment violations, and probably prevail as the police defense of "qualified immunity" is not avaliable where a right is "clearly established" by state law sources such as People v. Knight and the California Governor's recent veto of legislation to ban loaded car carry. See Saucier v. Katz, summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saucier_v._Katz, re the doctrine of qualified immunity.

[Librarian]

Even if Nordyke holds that the Second Amendment provides an individual right to bear arms applicable to state power this holding is not binding on any state court, not even California state courts,

I'd like to see a larger explication of this assertion, please.

[tombinghamthegreat]

No! Handguns must be in a locked case while transporting. Unloaded.
You can carry a rifle though.

FUD...suprised the ammo+gun BS did not come up....

[Liberty1]

Every gun owner in California should become familiar with People v. Knight, avalaible at http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/...es/c045858.pdf, establishing that not only can you lawfully open carry handguns in vehicles in California, but you can openly carry LOADED handguns in vehciles in unincorporated areas (except through areas explicitly made off limits to shooting by Counties).

Welcome Mike S!

You'll find some disagreement on Nordyke''s implications here with that statement. Stick around and engage.

I would word the above a little differently as follows: except through places explicitly made off limits to discharge of a firearm by any law.

I take that from Penal Code 12031 (f) - As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.



For those who don't know Mike, he is one of the powerhouses behind opencarry.org and the VCDL.

[Meplat]

If it shows it's probable cause.

Nicki,

I believe that you live in or around SF. If I'm correct about that, I would caution against any type of UOC until things change up there. It's not worth the legal headaches.

As far as ammo goes, I know of no law restricting how ammo is transported. There are some good common sense ways to carry ammo that can keep you from being hassled by an ignorant LEO but, I've been know to carry ammo in every compartment, door pocket, and open space of my vehicles. I've got to be careful opening my doors or ammo falls out. I'm not kidding about that!