Finally Called on for OC

[Liberty1]

Sadly , I recommend carrying only a pistol registered to you for activism purposes. If an officer wanted to get creative and teach you a lesson by claiming your pistol was loaded or concealed then with registration you're most likely looking at a misdemeanor and not a felony.

I know of one individual, who was not engaged in OC activism, who is currently defending himself against a creatively written report (defendants story- but I happen to believe him) and it is an uphill battle even as a misdemeanor case .

[Liberty1]

How SURE are you about that? And if it is a fact, (just for my knowledge) could you please refer to the PC?

PC is 12025 modified by People vs Hale. But I do agree that this in our case (UOC) is unsettled law. We just advise OCing the mag too to avoid the question. A unloaded mag in the well, even as it may delay load time slightly, also helps mitigate a Hale situation as pointed out by Mudcamper.

But we should not be telling LE a concealed mag = 12025.

[supersonic]

PC is 12025 modified by People vs Hale. But I do agree that this in our case (UOC) is unsettled law. We just advise OCing the mag too to avoid the question. A unloaded mag in the well, even as it may delay load time slightly, also helps mitigate a Hale situation as pointed out by Mudcamper.

But we should not be telling LE a concealed mag = 12025.

PM sent.

[JDay]

PC is 12025 modified by People vs Hale. But I do agree that this in our case (UOC) is unsettled law. We just advise OCing the mag too to avoid the question. A unloaded mag in the well, even as it may delay load time slightly, also helps mitigate a Hale situation as pointed out by Mudcamper.

But we should not be telling LE a concealed mag = 12025.

I don't know if I would have an unloaded mag in the mag well. Do you think a cop could claim it was "concealed" in the weapon?

[FreedomIsNotFree]

I don't know if I would have an unloaded mag in the mag well. Do you think a cop could claim it was "concealed" in the weapon?

If the gun itself is considering "open" I dont see any logic trying to argue an integral portion of that gun is somehow concealed. I see what you are getting at by with just a few seconds of logic, I'd hope most could see through it (no pun intended).

[pullnshoot25]

PC is 12025 modified by People vs Hale. But I do agree that this in our case (UOC) is unsettled law. We just advise OCing the mag too to avoid the question. A unloaded mag in the well, even as it may delay load time slightly, also helps mitigate a Hale situation as pointed out by Mudcamper.

But we should not be telling LE a concealed mag = 12025.

This is just giving me an excuse to buy another handgun! To have an unloaded mag then swap to a loaded mag with a Makarov is going to be a PITA!

[Theseus]

With the new XD40 I can quickly drop out a mag and insert a new and I was considering that...

One of the arguments for this is that then it will be hard for a BG to tell if the gun was unloaded. Since a cop is gonna check anyway...I can't see a downfall other than the fact that it would cost me about .01 seconds to drop it.

[Seesm]

So what is the reason to be open carrying with a loaded magazine in let's say a pocket...?

Is it for self defense?


So in a bad situation you load your gun and take cover?

I just do not get it... Wish it was like the old west you could just carry...

Makes so much sense to me.

Pm me anyone to explain in depth as I like to learn. Thanks.

[NiteQwill]

So what is the reason to be open carrying with a loaded magazine in let's say a pocket...?

Is it for self defense?


So in a bad situation you load your gun and take cover?

I just do not get it... Wish it was like the old west you could just carry...

Makes so much sense to me.

Pm me anyone to explain in depth as I like to learn. Thanks.

This has been covered so many times.

A loaded magazine in the pocket, btw, is a no-no.

[artherd]

There needs to be PC that a crime has been committed to run a firearm through AFS. (ie, possible stolen gun.)

Since they quickly verified that the gun was unloaded, there is no PC.

[artherd]

As for People v Hale, do not have an open empty gun, and conceal a mag.

Now is where things get fuzzy. If ONE magazine is part of the firearm, what about extra mags loaded & concealed?

This is unsettled law, but my opinion is that one mag + gun frame = 1 firearm. Extra mags probably can be concealed. Do so at your own peril however.

[JDoe]

So what is the reason to be open carrying with a loaded magazine in let's say a pocket...?

Is it for self defense?


So in a bad situation you load your gun and take cover?

I just do not get it... Wish it was like the old west you could just carry...

Makes so much sense to me.

Pm me anyone to explain in depth as I like to learn. Thanks.

Seesm http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/ is a good resource for legal unloaded open carry in California and will have answers to your questions.

[Fire in the Hole]

There needs to be PC that a crime has been committed to run a firearm through AFS. (ie, possible stolen gun.)

Since they quickly verified that the gun was unloaded, there is no PC.

I've read this statement several times on different threads on this forum and others. I must confess ignorance. I've been retired 2 years now, but I always ran the serial # when checking a firearm to see if it was stolen. I can't see where it's any different than running a vehicle license plate during a traffic stop to find out if it's a stolen vehicle. If a cop stopped someone that had a firearm stolen from me, I'd want the cop to run the serial # in addition to checking it's status. I called the training Sgt's on my local PD, SO, and CHP this week to find out what this law was. Likewise with my Fish and Game Warden next door. They had never heard of it, and stated basically that yes, the officers are expected to run the serial # during any encounter where a firearm is found or discovered on a person, or in his possession. So where's the disconnect with this rule? What is the statute that covers this? There must be a training break-down somewhere.

[Theseus]

I am sure the difference between running the car via license plate and checking the serial of a gun is different in that there is no detainment required to run a car as the license plate is viewable in public.

To run the serial of the gun requires detainment and, from what I understand amounts to a search of property, which you would need a warrant for, so unless you have PC that the gun is stolen or that some other crime has been, is, or will be committed that you can not search my person or property.

12031 does not provide for you to search me, only inspect the weapon.

I've read this statement several times on different threads on this forum and others. I must confess ignorance. I've been retired 2 years now, but I always ran the serial # when checking a firearm to see if it was stolen. I can't see where it's any different than running a vehicle license plate during a traffic stop to find out if it's a stolen vehicle. If a cop stopped someone that had a firearm stolen from me, I'd want the cop to run the serial # in addition to checking it's status. I called the training Sgt's on my local PD, SO, and CHP this week to find out what this law was. Likewise with my Fish and Game Warden next door. They had never heard of it, and stated basically that yes, the officers are expected to run the serial # during any encounter where a firearm is found or discovered on a person, or in his possession. So where's the disconnect with this rule? What is the statute that covers this? There must be a training break-down somewhere.

[Fire in the Hole]

Thanks, but if the3 police already have you "detained" to inspect the gun to find out if it's loaded, what's another 1 minute to run it through NCIC to find out if it's stolen? This seems like a reasonable time. Besides recovering stolen property and returning itg to its rightgful owner is a basic fundamental job of the police. It's one of the things my tax dolars pay for. I can see bad PR for police who only check to determine if a gun is loaded, then return it back to the crook. I can see a theft victim coming unglued if he found this out. But perhaps I'm just adressing this due to my apparentg lack of knowlege on the subject. To sum up, there is there a specific statute, or case law that prohibits police from running the serial # to find out if it's stolen, or just 12031 that does not specifically permit it in wording? Educate me.