Jaymes et al vs Maduros, CRPA suit against 11% Excise Tax, July 2 2024

[TTT]

I would add 7) the 9^th Circuit has clearly indicated it is not going to treat the 2A fairly, and gunners are sick of being screwed over by them.

[MountainLion]

any time between 2006 - 2016, there would have been over 300 posts in this thread by now discussing it, angles of approach, detailed legal explanation and potential other methods for attack.

Oh you mean Gene Hoffman pointing out how incredibly smart he is, how he manages attorneys, how big his legal thing is, and how he'll fix all this in a moment? Brandon Combs, Bill Wiese, and Ben Cannon all chiming in and agreeing? Fabio (real name unknown) injecting some reality into the discussion and getting piled on? Various nutcases either cheering or disagreeing?

Seems like nobody cares anymore.

No, what you saw in 2006-2016 was more like peacocks spreading their feathers, to make up for the fact that they have nothing real to show. Little progress was made back then in this forum, or in the California legal landscape, other than lining the pockets or boosting the egos of the people described above. The only one who was anywhere near the mark was Fabio.

1) proactive gun owners leaving California,

Of the big posters in those days, most still live in California, except Brandon Combs has moved to Nevada.

2) older more proactive gun owners that gave a damn are now dying off,

As far as I know, they are all alive. Ben Cannon has become a homeless trans woman, but AFAIK is not dead.

3) the challenges of posting on Calguns over the past year prior to the update caused many previous members to bail on Calguns for good,
4) the update itself not being as user-friendly as the old version had been causing many previous members to bail on Calguns for good,

The "good times" of Calguns, with lots of loud posting and louder announcements of things that never panned out ended long before the forum software and server went to hell in a hand basket. It ended because these characters couldn't interact with humans.

5) the anti-NRA crowd finally got their wish of neutering the NRA, which has helped expand a stigma of gun ownership in general, whether you like or hate WLP, and whether he had any influence in that or not,

The NRA has had no influence in California, for the last 20 years. They used to employ a full-time lobbyist, and he is still in the state, now employed by GOA. The CRPA (which is the NRA's state org) remains very active.

6) or California politicians finally gaining traction with younger generations ...

I don't think that has changed significantly in the last 15 years. Remember, Prop 63 (a nearly 2/3 majority against guns) was already 8 years ago. Today, a large fraction of the people who post here are nutcases.

Honestly, if you compare the activity on Calguns to what happens in other parts of the online blogosphere, I would say that the large number of posts in that roughly 10-year period was an exception, and we are now having the regression to the mean, with most posts full of nuts, fruits and flakes.

[CALI-gula]

Oh you mean Gene Hoffman pointing out how incredibly smart he is, how he manages attorneys, how big his legal thing is, and how he'll fix all this in a moment? Brandon Combs, bwiese, and Ben Cannon all chiming in and agreeing? Fabio (real name unknown) injecting some reality into the discussion and getting piled on? Various nutcases either cheering or disagreeing?

The fact that these are the only guys you recall says a lot about you. I wasn't thinking of any of them, I was thinking of the community that we had back then, the real, tacit connections and the differences, change, and influence on legislation we had. The genius exceptions that were pondered and then spread like wildfire through the entire state (i.e., OLL/OLR, featureless, Bullet-Buttons, Single-Shot exemption, Single-Action exemption, AOW exceptions, .50BMG Shoulder-fired rifle alternatives, fighting Microstamping and the Roster, CCW processes and pursuit, and more, ALL of which really found genesis on Calguns.)

While Gene made numerous missteps his contributions weren't completely without merit. bwiese as well. Never thought much of con-artist Brandon or sociopath performance-artist Lady Ben.

FGG was (and still is) great for the lucidity he brought to the conversation, even guidance that changed peoples' mind, and a lot was learned from his input and value. But he was often only reactionary, so you couldn't get his advise without the iffy input of others in the first place. He still shows up from time to time, as does Bill, but where you have some odd reason for a cynical view about the hundreds of other posts, I disagree; much was learned, and much was done, regardless of your distorted view of whether it was productive or not. A lot more was accomplished during those 10 years with Calguns being a major resource, force, and hub for most of it, than the empty shell of itself as it is now where very little gets done at all other than the same contentious people posting over and over in circles with little direction at all except to make it more about personal view rather than accomplishing meaningful change and in fighting bad legislation.

No, what you saw in 2006-2016 was more like peacocks spreading their feathers, to make up for the fact that they have nothing real to show. Little progress was made back then in this forum, or in the California legal landscape, other than lining the pockets or boosting the egos of the people described above. The only one who was anywhere near the mark was Fabio.

And yet, here you are, spreading your feathers. ?

FGG was an asset, that's for sure, but your selective memory forgets the volume and trend of how productive so many others that had valuable input because all you can reminisce over are those drama-queens. No, I'm thinking of how much more of a true community we all had been, even getting together for events and activism.

Of the big posters in those days, most still live in California, except Brandon Combs has moved to Nevada.

Wasn't really thinking of those guys 'making' Calguns what it had been. As for Brandon, good riddance. It was instead, the cohesive volume with plenty beneficial input from hundreds if not thousands of names you have not recalled. I think that's because you fondly remember the misbegotten drama because that's all I see you trying to accomplish in your posts even now. It seems you thrive on that here; maybe it's your form of entertainment to stoke the coals online and merely be contentious for the sake of being contentious even if nothing ever really gets said or accomplished. Just look at your reply to my prior posts, railing and disregarding the facts of what I was saying about the level of contribution/active membership/participation being way, way down regardless of the drama and social-influencer 'brand' of the more infamous Calguns members of old.

The "good times" of Calguns, with lots of loud posting and louder announcements of things that never panned out ended long before the forum software and server went to hell in a hand basket. It ended because these characters couldn't interact with humans.

It's weird that you only see, or saw, and still see it that way. Because that is not to what I was eluding and certainly not those individuals. It's clear the volume of input, especially valuable technical input, meaningful exchange, and banding together is down regardless of the drama that certain clowns and wanna-be ringmasters brought to the forum; those were not what 'made' Calguns great. And yet, a lot still got done. Now it's just a bunch of emotive-driven back and forth about perception as opposed to technical analysis and facts absent of opinion. Just think of how much resistance was accomplished to bad legislation as well as the amount of how much Calguns used motivate a whole lot more people to corral the wagons and react in kind as a group. A lot, that's simply a fact. Calguns was very much like the left arm of CRPA/NRA during those times.

The NRA has had no influence in California, for the last 20 years. They used to employ a full-time lobbyist, and he is still in the state, now employed by GOA. The CRPA (which is the NRA's state org) remains very active.

False. But that's fine. Your incorrect impression is exactly the collateral damage to which I was citing. You completely missed the point. I was not commenting about the NRA's involvement in CA on that value alone, even though it has stepped out of CRPA's way as the CRPA has gotten a whole lot better these past 20 years. I bumped into Ed Worley many, many times at state and local city-council hearings, too many times to count, but I still see the workings behind the scenes that the NRA contributes and absolutely still has influence in CA. The NRA member's councils used to be a good footing within the state that drove NRA's state-level activism but the same stigma against the NRA has also diminished the role and importance the NRA Members Councils had in CA. By deriding the NRA, it killed the influence of the NRA Member's Councils.

No, instead, what I was citing is that the NRA is the lead front of mind 2nd Amendment rights organization just about anyone anywhere thinks of when they are asked "named a 2nd Amendment rights organization". As the media and the Letitia James types have steered a whole lot of younger generation away from the NRA, no matter where they reside, regardless of the WLP blame-game, so too they will not be inclined to care about their 2nd Amendment rights and in turn, not then be made aware that there are subsequent and more state-focused 2nd Amendment rights organizations like the CRPA.

To sum it up; they learn to hate the NRA, then will certainly never learn there are alternatives that better align with their focus and goals. They will certainly then never join or attend a local NRA Member's Council meeting.

I'm all for the CRPA, as the leader right now for our state-level fight. But you seem to forget how useless the CRPA was prior to the early 2000s before Chuck Michel came in and shaped things up. In fact, it was about a useless a gun-rights organization as you could get, worse that FPC, with insider voting, meetings, unaccountable use of cash/membership fees, etc. The CRPA as it is now is great! And yes, the CRPA is the CA arm of the NRA. But to say that the NRA has had no influence in California for the last 20 years, again, says more about your lack of involvement and actual activity than it does about the NRA. I was not bringing up whether the NRA has direct impact in CA at all.

Today, a large fraction of the people who post here are nutcases.

And here you are. ?

Honestly, if you compare the activity on Calguns to what happens in other parts of the online blogosphere, I would say that the large number of posts in that roughly 10-year period was an exception, and we are now having the regression to the mean, with most posts full of nuts, fruits and flakes.

That's for sure. I have noticed where the internet in its first 15 years was such a deep resource of valuable technical information and education, on thousands of topics, where it was so important to get things right, for data and information to be correct. These past 10 years however, it has devolved into being a shallow pool of useless tarts posting silly photos, selfies, worthless videos on inane topics (if there is any actual topic at all), articles on how much someone was 'offended' over some meaningless existences, intentionally posting fabricated information or data, memes, cliche conveyances, dances, porn, identity politics, DEI-garbage, socialist propaganda, opinion pieces reather than journalism, consumerism overload, off-topic nonsense solely for the drama it instigates, and an endless cornucopia of vanity.


I still think Calguns can be a lot more than it currently is, akin to what it once had been, which was very productive whether your memory fails to recall that or not. It would seem that its disintegration has to do with the growing general apathy of gun owners in California becoming the norm and not the exception, compounded by the Left winning the hearts and minds of up-and-coming generations to view gun ownership as a negative and with a bad connotation.

Maybe one of my other points certainly nailed it, and the reality is that it's well past-due for me to vacate California too.

.

[CALI-gula]

I would add 7) the 9^th Circuit has clearly indicated it is not going to treat the 2A fairly, and gunners are sick of being screwed over by them.

That's for sure. Definite political influence going on there that would gut the hopes of even the most dire-hard gun owners, so that's a fair assessment that deserves a nod. It's also quite simply a good reason why so many previously visible and proactive die-hard 2nd Amendment activists in California ARE leaving California, and as a consequence, why there may be a lot less of such valuable individuals on Calguns anymore.

Maybe I'm the fool for having stayed so long, longer than the expiration date that the box advised.

.

[Drivedabizness]

Calguns has really fallen hard. If this had been any time between 2006 - 2016, there would have been over 300 posts in this thread by now discussing it, angles of approach, detailed legal explanation and potential other methods for attack.

Seems like nobody cares anymore.

I have to wonder how much of the apathy is caused by;

1) proactive gun owners leaving California,
2) older more proactive gun owners that gave a damn are now dying off,
3) the challenges of posting on Calguns over the past year prior to the update caused many previous members to bail on Calguns for good,
4) the update itself not being as user-friendly as the old version had been causing many previous members to bail on Calguns for good,
5) the anti-NRA crowd finally got their wish of neutering the NRA, which has helped expand a stigma of gun ownership in general, whether you like or hate WLP, and whether he had any influence in that or not,
6) or California politicians finally gaining traction with younger generations in brain-washing them through their anti-gun marketing campaigns, to get them to willingly and voluntarily eschew their 2nd Amendment civil-rights and abhor firearms, trading gun ownership, culpability, and independence for surrogate pursuits of weed, porn, video-games, transgender/DEI-games, climate-change blame, student loan 'forgiveness', support for Hamas/Hezbollah, socialism, welfare, passivity and plenty of other false, vacuous parasitic endeavors that government is all to willing to help them be saddled with.

.

Oh, I don't know. During the time frame you cite many of us would simply got tired of being yelled at/looked down on by our self-appointed betters (the "smart" or "right" people) almost none of which, having figured out that none of us give much of a **** what they have to say OR their low opinion of US, have appeared here for years. The same "smart" "right" people who (predictably) lost in Court time after time, while accusing everyone else of playing checkers while they played chess.

[Silence Dogood]

As a relatively new member, I cannot speak to the the decade in question since I missed it but with respect to the post count of this thread, it seems relevant to note that this thread was only started four days ago. There have been other threads on this topic, perhaps too many, in various forums on Calguns and I suspect the total post count of all these threads exceeds 300.

With respect to CALI-gula's fifth and sixths points, or at least what I read as the underlying basis of both of them, I tend to agree. Guns are out of vogue in the minds of roughly half of our country's citizens and even more so here in California, probably to the tune of 60%-70% of the population. I have argued since joining CG that the court of public opinion is arguably the most important court we need to be fighting in. Kids need to learn gun safety (safe handling, not the way anti-gunners use the term) at an early age and from that foundation the next generation of gun owners and 2A advocates will be born.

With greater non-partisan support and acceptance of firearms in society, as existed in most of the country before the 1960s, it will be much more difficult for anti-gun forces to even get measures like this one onto ballots and/or into the legislature, let alone passed into law.


ETA: Agree with MountainLion's post (below) and apologize for my off topic post.

On the topic of this suit: with the filing being just Tuesday, has this even been assigned to a judge yet?

[MountainLion]

The fact that ...

I disagree with about half of what you said, and agree with the other half. Or perhaps one third - two thirds or the other way around. But this is not the place to discuss it. If we feel like it, we should restart the discussion elsewhere.

[tenemae]

Calguns has really fallen hard. If this had been any time between 2006 - 2016, there would have been over 300 posts in this thread by now discussing it, angles of approach, detailed legal explanation and potential other methods for attack.

While I can't speak for everyone, let me speak for a few:
1) A lot of that philosophizing has been used against us. CADoJ reads these boards.
2) This isn't a ruling, just a filing. There are no "how does this apply to me", or "how do we get around this" questions. Come back in 2026 for those.
3) It's hard being abused again and again while trying to be an optimist. We're still fighting gunmageddon from 2016. It's now 2024. The supreme court ordered Ca to issue us carry permits in 2022. Many (most?) of us are still waiting. The legal process has been slowed to irrelevance. Those of us who could leave, have.
4) Gun rights matter less when you can't afford a place to live. Shooting sports have taken a back seat to rent, insurance, gas, and food. We've not seen harder times than this in quite a while. An 11% excise tax doesn't matter so much on something you can't afford in the first place.

A lot of people are bleeding out economically. You have to close the artery before tending the vein

[Preston-CLB]

This suit was filed in the Superior Court of San Diego County.

Has this suit been placed on the docket and when will it be heard?

Anyone know?
-P

[Dvrjon]

This suit was filed in the Superior Court of San Diego County.

Has this suit been placed on the docket and when will it be heard?

Anyone know?
-P

https://courtindex.sdcourt.ca.gov/CI...=SD&applcode=C

[curtisfong]

Fabio provided literally nothing of any value whatsoever. I tire of your spin on him.

[ProfChaos]

So the AG is able to have the 9th on speed dial to get his emergency injunctions after hours going into a weekend, but we cannot even get in the court after a week? I would hope a judge issues an emergency once it gets to their desk.

[Dvrjon]

So the AG is able to have the 9th on speed dial to get his emergency injunctions after hours going into a weekend, but we cannot even get in the court after a week? I would hope a judge issues an emergency once it gets to their desk.

[MountainLion]

So the AG is able to have the 9th on speed dial to get his emergency injunctions after hours going into a weekend, but we cannot even get in the court after a week? I would hope a judge issues an emergency once it gets to their desk.

If you can explain how an 11% change in the price of an item constitutes an "emergency", your argument would be stronger. Ideally to a judge, but for starters, explain it to us.

[norcalsig]

If you can explain how an 11% change in the price of an item constitutes an "emergency", your argument would be stronger. Ideally to a judge, but for starters, explain it to us.

You get a pass on that comment because you are obviously a millennial and never got US history in 5th grade.

Government overstep, taxation being one of the most known events of such leading to us kicking British ***, is an emergency.

??you are why schools indoctrinate and hide our history as they do, now people like you think it's just a "change in price".