Rhode v. Becerra (Challenge to CA Ammo Sales) - ORAL ARGS at 9th 11-9-2020

[ar15barrels]

Some places dont accept the COE/ FFL03 and require the "background check". I try to never buy from them anymore on principle, but sometimes I have to...

I have not personally run into that but it's probably because I order most of my ammo online or buy it out of state if I happen to see a good deal.
I was in a gun store in AZ last weekend and I saw some ammo that I thought was priced very well.
I checked ammoseek and the store was only $1 more per box than the best price on ammoseek and no shipping since I was standing in the store so I bought it.

[Sgt Raven]

The Rule of Unintended Consequences...

https://youtu.be/0O8O0pMn1Qk

[SpudmanWP]

CRPA Update

[Dvrjon]

The background check is only performed during application for, and issuance of, the COE.

Ammunition purchase is merely the verification that the COE is valid. No background check is done.

When purchasing from a vendor in state, the FFL-03 is not needed. Only the COE is validated.

CA PEN 26710

(b) The Department of Justice shall examine its records and records available to the department in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System in order to determine if the applicant is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.

(c) The department shall issue a certificate

11 CCR 4285. COE Verification Process.

(a) A purchaser or transferee is authorized to purchase ammunition if they hold a current Certificate of Eligibility, subsequent to verification by the Department.
(1) A purchaser or transferee may request,through an ammunition vendor, that the Department conduct a COE Verification to determine if the purchaser or transferee qualifies for this authorization.[/b][]
(d) Upon the Department's completion of the COE Verification, the Department shall update the purchaser's or transferee's DES record to instruct the ammunition vendor to approve or reject the ammunition purchase or transfer.

DOJ Ammunition Purchase Authorization Program

- - -the Department will determine that a person is eligible to purchase or transfer ammunition if they meet one of the following requirements:

The person has a current Certificate of Eligibility issued by the Department.

[rplaw]

The background check is only performed during application for, and issuance of, the COE.

Ammunition purchase is merely the verification that the COE is valid. No background check is done.

When purchasing from a vendor in state, the FFL-03 is not needed. Only the COE is validated.

Semantics. Instead of doing the standard BG check, they do the COE "already done" BG check. It's still a BG check.

Retailers with a business license can provide wholesalers with a copy of their business license to avoid paying sales tax on supplies/etc. The wholesalers don't "recheck" the validity of the business license or request another copy each time because they already know the retailer has a business license.

Yet ammo dealers are required to "run the license" every time. Why? Answer: Because a BG check is required, even for COE.

A rose by any other name is still a BG check.

[ARFrog]

Semantics. Instead of doing the standard BG check, they do the COE "already done" BG check. It's still a BG check.

Retailers with a business license can provide wholesalers with a copy of their business license to avoid paying sales tax on supplies/etc. The wholesalers don't "recheck" the validity of the business license or request another copy each time because they already know the retailer has a business license.

Yet ammo dealers are required to "run the license" every time. Why? Answer: Because a BG check is required, even for COE.

A rose by any other name is still a BG check.

Finally, someone who "gets it."

What good is the certificate if you have to do a background check to verify it. It would seem that eligibility in this circumstance is a misnomer.

[Chewy65]

Finally, someone who "gets it."

What good is the certificate if you have to do a background check to verify it. It would seem that eligibility in this circumstance is a misnomer.

If you have a COE, some out of state vendors will ship direct to you, No? In that case is either fee paid?

[EM2]

If you have a COE, some out of state vendors will ship direct to you, No? In that case is either fee paid?

No
Must also have FFL03

If they are selling to a COE only then they are in violation.

[BlueOvalBandit]

I just find it interesting the DOJ refuses to issue COEs without a FFL or a business. Having a COE for the purchase of ammo is "unacceptable"

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[curtisfong]

I just find it interesting the DOJ refuses to issue COEs without a FFL or a business.

You can get an CEO w/o a FFL. It just doesn't help with the ammo situation.

[BlueOvalBandit]

You can get an CEO w/o a FFL. It just doesn't help with the ammo situation.

Have you tried? DOJ personnel give you a hard stop and ask for a business needing a COE or your FFL.

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[cz74]

I used my COE recently at sportsman to purchase ammunition, they still asked the same set of questions (place of birth, race, etc.) as if no COE and still pay $1.

[Dvrjon]

Have you tried? DOJ personnel give you a hard stop and ask for a business needing a COE or your FFL.

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And you tell them no, and they issue
There are numerous threads on this.

[ar15barrels]

Semantics. Instead of doing the standard BG check, they do the COE "already done" BG check. It's still a BG check.

No it's not.
They are literally just checking if the COE is current or not.
This is to make sure that a presented COE is not fraudulent.
When the COE comes back as current, approval to deliver the ammo is the result.
No background check is run because an active COE is proof that a background check would be passed if it were actually run.
If a COE is not current, then it either is expired or revoked.
In the case of COE revocation, that would generally mean that firearms rights have been revoked as well and even a standard background check would find that.
If a COE is simply expired, then a standard background check would likely pass and a standard background check would still be required before ammo delivery could commence.

[BlueOvalBandit]

And you tell them no, and they issue

There are numerous threads on this.

The point is not whether they eventually issue, it took about half a dozen iterations back and forth for me last time (3 rejected applications and 2-3 emails). They point is they're making the process needlessly difficult as punishment.

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