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Duncan V Bonta - large cap mags: OLD THREAD

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  • Xeoh85
    Junior Member
    • Dec 2020
    • 21

    Originally posted by mroblivian
    They are going to do some BS and just pray scotus doesn't take it. It's literally all they have left.
    I actually think the en banc Ninth Circuit is going to surprise everyone here and affirm Judge Benitez, finding the law unconstitutional. Hear me out ....

    The writing is clearly on the wall that magazine bans are dead under Bruen. The anti-gun judges on the Ninth Circuit thus certainly do NOT want Duncan going up as the next 2A case SCOTUS decides, as the arguments are so one-sided it is obvious that SCOTUS would issue a strongly worded pro-2A opinion that makes Bruen look tepid by comparison.

    So, what can anti-2A Ninth Circuit judges do in the face of what appears to be certain defeat? They can attempt to cauterize the wound. By taking the case en banc and finding the law unconstitutional under Bruen, they can keep some control over the scope of precedent by drafting a very narrowly worded opinion that applies only to magazine bans and nothing else. They can also load the opinion up with tons of anti-2A language and dicta that effectively renders the opinion bad precedent for any other 2A issue beyond magazine bans. And by finding the law unconstitutional, there would be no adverse ruling from which the plaintiffs could appeal to SCOTUS. California likewise probably would not appeal to SCOTUS if they lose even before the liberal Ninth Circuit, so the en banc panel's anti-2A rhetoric would likely be the last word on the subject. And with no appeal to SCOTUS, the precedential scope of the opinion will be limited to the Ninth Circuit, rather than getting rid of magazine bans nationwide.

    No other outcome here makes sense when you consider that, by taking the case en banc before the 3-judge panel rules, the Ninth Circuit has just sped this case along by about a year closer to its ultimate resolution. They are looking to get this one off the docket and keep it away from SCOTUS, so that the next 2A case that comes before SCOTUS is on something more controversial, like suppressors or assault weapons bans.

    Comment

    • 7.62mm_fmj
      Member
      • Nov 2019
      • 191

      I think plaintiffs will file an interlocutory appeal to SCOTUS and complain that this process has already taken too long. At minimum, SCOTUS may respond and tell the 9CA they need to expedite this ruling, else they take it, especially when the details of the shenanigans exposed by Judge VanDyke are reported. Duncan never should have gone en banc the first time, since the the deadline for rehearing en banc had passed.

      That is, if 9CA continues the stay. If they let Judge Benitez's ruling go into effect, then they can take all the time they want. I'm sure the long game is to replace a republican Supreme Court justice with a corrupt one, or pack the court with corrupt judges.

      Comment

      • SpudmanWP
        CGN/CGSSA Contributor
        CGN Contributor
        • Jul 2017
        • 1156

        Originally posted by Xeoh85
        I actually think the en banc Ninth Circuit is going to surprise everyone here and affirm Judge Benitez, finding the law unconstitutional. Hear me out ....
        Don't underestimate Newsom's pride.
        Also, keep in mind that there will be a lot of 2A cases getting to SCOTUS in the next 5 years as the flood of post-Bruen cases get filed and work their way through the system.

        Comment

        • 7.62mm_fmj
          Member
          • Nov 2019
          • 191

          Originally posted by Xeoh85
          They are looking to get this one off the docket and keep it away from SCOTUS, so that the next 2A case that comes before SCOTUS is on something more controversial, like suppressors or assault weapons bans.
          9CA will be receiving another emergency appeal from the state when Judge Benitez drops his next decision in the Miller v Bonta AWB case any day/week now.

          Comment

          • Drivedabizness
            Veteran Member
            • Dec 2009
            • 2610

            Originally posted by SpudmanWP
            Don't underestimate Newsom's pride.
            Also, keep in mind that there will be a lot of 2A cases getting to SCOTUS in the next 5 years as the flood of post-Bruen cases get filed and work their way through the system.
            His venality is even worse than his pride.
            Proud CGN Contributor
            USMC Pistol Team Alumni - Distinguished Pistol Shot
            Owner of multiple Constitutionally protected tools

            Comment

            • Harland Barricuda
              Banned
              • Sep 2023
              • 80

              Originally posted by Bolt_Action
              Seriously? Why do some of you continue to hope beyond all reason that the 9th circuit is suddenly going to respect the law and ruling of the SCOTUS, despite years of overwhelming evidence that it won?t? These judges vote the political interests of their appointers, every time. EVERY TIME. The decision will be 7-4, just like it was before. Let?s not be naive, this is the real world and at this point we should all know how it works.

              Direct intervention by the Supreme Court is the only path that has a chance of success.
              hope is afterall irrational. everyone wishes they can win the lottery. "what if?"

              Comment

              • rplaw
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2014
                • 1808

                Originally posted by Xeoh85
                I actually think the en banc Ninth Circuit is going to surprise everyone here and affirm Judge Benitez, finding the law unconstitutional. Hear me out ....
                To do this the anti-gun justices on the en banc panel will have to admit they got it wrong.

                They are vehemently anti-gun. Not just opposed to the 2A but actively working against it. That type of mindset isn't going to admit they're wrong and that they've been wrong the whole time because their egos are involved in their decision making process.

                That is why they scooped the stay request away from the motions panel.

                Remember this isn't the appeal on the merits, it's a request for a stay pending the appeal resolution. No en banc is ever required for a simple stay request. Which indicates that they're doing it for some other reason. That reason isn't going to be that they admit they were wrong and they're sorry. They could even avoid all of that and just let the motions panel handle the stay request.

                Instead, the plan is most likely going to be for them to grant the stay and then sit on the appeal for as long as they can while hoping that the makeup of the SCOTUS changes. They will then use Duncan, Miller, and Rhode to eviscerate the 2A.

                I hope the Supremes are listening and watching and when it happens I hope to Hades that they squash the 9th like the oppressive little tyrannical bugs they really are.

                Enough is enough.
                Some random thoughts:

                Somebody's gotta be the mole so it might as well be me. Seems to be working so far.

                Evil doesn't only come in black.

                Life is like a discount bakery. Usually everything is just what you ordered. But, occasionally you come face to face with an unexpected fruitcake. Surprise!

                My Utubery

                Comment

                • Xeoh85
                  Junior Member
                  • Dec 2020
                  • 21

                  Originally posted by SpudmanWP
                  Don't underestimate Newsom's pride.
                  Also, keep in mind that there will be a lot of 2A cases getting to SCOTUS in the next 5 years as the flood of post-Bruen cases get filed and work their way through the system.
                  Newsom's pride may lead Bonta to file a cert petition, but that would not matter, as SCOTUS will be far less likely to grant cert if the 9th Circuit finds the law unconstitutional.

                  And yes, there are a lot of 2A cases coming up. That is why the shrewd play by the anti-2A Ninth Circuit judges would be to ensure that THIS ONE -- on which the state is most clearly going to lose -- does not ever get there.

                  Comment

                  • LoadedM333
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 1691

                    Originally posted by Xeoh85
                    I actually think the en banc Ninth Circuit is going to surprise everyone here and affirm Judge Benitez, finding the law unconstitutional. Hear me out ....

                    The writing is clearly on the wall that magazine bans are dead under Bruen. The anti-gun judges on the Ninth Circuit thus certainly do NOT want Duncan going up as the next 2A case SCOTUS decides, as the arguments are so one-sided it is obvious that SCOTUS would issue a strongly worded pro-2A opinion that makes Bruen look tepid by comparison.

                    So, what can anti-2A Ninth Circuit judges do in the face of what appears to be certain defeat? They can attempt to cauterize the wound. By taking the case en banc and finding the law unconstitutional under Bruen, they can keep some control over the scope of precedent by drafting a very narrowly worded opinion that applies only to magazine bans and nothing else. They can also load the opinion up with tons of anti-2A language and dicta that effectively renders the opinion bad precedent for any other 2A issue beyond magazine bans. And by finding the law unconstitutional, there would be no adverse ruling from which the plaintiffs could appeal to SCOTUS. California likewise probably would not appeal to SCOTUS if they lose even before the liberal Ninth Circuit, so the en banc panel's anti-2A rhetoric would likely be the last word on the subject. And with no appeal to SCOTUS, the precedential scope of the opinion will be limited to the Ninth Circuit, rather than getting rid of magazine bans nationwide.

                    No other outcome here makes sense when you consider that, by taking the case en banc before the 3-judge panel rules, the Ninth Circuit has just sped this case along by about a year closer to its ultimate resolution. They are looking to get this one off the docket and keep it away from SCOTUS, so that the next 2A case that comes before SCOTUS is on something more controversial, like suppressors or assault weapons bans.

                    I like your reasoning and hope this will be the case.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    NRA LifeTime Member

                    Comment

                    • Xeoh85
                      Junior Member
                      • Dec 2020
                      • 21

                      Originally posted by rplaw
                      To do this the anti-gun justices on the en banc panel will have to admit they got it wrong.

                      They are vehemently anti-gun. Not just opposed to the 2A but actively working against it. That type of mindset isn't going to admit they're wrong and that they've been wrong the whole time because their egos are involved in their decision making process.
                      No they don't. They could easily write a long screed about how they disagree with the reasoning of Bruen, but ultimately conclude that they are nevertheless bound by Bruen unless and until a future SCOTUS overturns it. They could write the most politically charged, anti-2A opinion imaginable, bloviating to their hearts' content about how dumb SCOTUS is, and yet still apply Bruen as written and find the magazine ban unconstitutional under it.

                      I would not be surprised to see this.

                      Comment

                      • plumbum
                        Calguns Addict
                        • May 2010
                        • 5394

                        I can guarantee they aren’t afraid to run out the clock in hopes of one of the justices pulling a Ginsburg.
                        Originally posted by ysr_racer
                        Please don't bring logic and reason into an interwebs discussion

                        Comment

                        • LEAD LAUNCHER
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2013
                          • 1938

                          Originally posted by Xeoh85
                          I actually think the en banc Ninth Circuit is going to surprise everyone here and affirm Judge Benitez, finding the law unconstitutional. Hear me out ....

                          The writing is clearly on the wall that magazine bans are dead under Bruen. The anti-gun judges on the Ninth Circuit thus certainly do NOT want Duncan going up as the next 2A case SCOTUS decides, as the arguments are so one-sided it is obvious that SCOTUS would issue a strongly worded pro-2A opinion that makes Bruen look tepid by comparison.

                          So, what can anti-2A Ninth Circuit judges do in the face of what appears to be certain defeat? They can attempt to cauterize the wound. By taking the case en banc and finding the law unconstitutional under Bruen, they can keep some control over the scope of precedent by drafting a very narrowly worded opinion that applies only to magazine bans and nothing else. They can also load the opinion up with tons of anti-2A language and dicta that effectively renders the opinion bad precedent for any other 2A issue beyond magazine bans. And by finding the law unconstitutional, there would be no adverse ruling from which the plaintiffs could appeal to SCOTUS. California likewise probably would not appeal to SCOTUS if they lose even before the liberal Ninth Circuit, so the en banc panel's anti-2A rhetoric would likely be the last word on the subject. And with no appeal to SCOTUS, the precedential scope of the opinion will be limited to the Ninth Circuit, rather than getting rid of magazine bans nationwide.

                          No other outcome here makes sense when you consider that, by taking the case en banc before the 3-judge panel rules, the Ninth Circuit has just sped this case along by about a year closer to its ultimate resolution. They are looking to get this one off the docket and keep it away from SCOTUS, so that the next 2A case that comes before SCOTUS is on something more controversial, like suppressors or assault weapons bans.

                          ^^^^Oh man I wish you were right on this one...but I don't think so....

                          Originally posted by rplaw
                          To do this the anti-gun justices on the en banc panel will have to admit they got it wrong.

                          They are vehemently anti-gun. Not just opposed to the 2A but actively working against it. That type of mindset isn't going to admit they're wrong and that they've been wrong the whole time because their egos are involved in their decision making process.

                          That is why they scooped the stay request away from the motions panel.

                          Remember this isn't the appeal on the merits, it's a request for a stay pending the appeal resolution. No en banc is ever required for a simple stay request. Which indicates that they're doing it for some other reason. That reason isn't going to be that they admit they were wrong and they're sorry. They could even avoid all of that and just let the motions panel handle the stay request.

                          Instead, the plan is most likely going to be for them to grant the stay and then sit on the appeal for as long as they can while hoping that the makeup of the SCOTUS changes. They will then use Duncan, Miller, and Rhode to eviscerate the 2A.

                          I hope the Supremes are listening and watching and when it happens I hope to Hades that they squash the 9th like the oppressive little tyrannical bugs they really are.

                          Enough is enough.
                          ^^^ This seems much more likely to happen....

                          Comment

                          • AlmostHeaven
                            Veteran Member
                            • Apr 2023
                            • 3808

                            That so many people on Calguns hope for a miracle with the Ninth Circuit en banc panel puzzles me. I actually have my fingers crossed for the exact opposite.

                            May the Ninth Circuit behave so badly that the maneuver backfires. As far as I am concerned, the worse the appellate courts behave regarding Second Amendment litigation, the more likely the Supreme Court grants certiorari to a major case and delivers a broad ruling that affirms gun rights.

                            I literally want the Ninth Circuit to go all-in on using the most discriminatory, segregationist, and racist laws possible as its Bruen methodology historical analogues to defend restrictions on large-capacity magazines, assault weapons, handgun models, and more. Liberal judges would do individual liberty favors by upholding gun control laws using the most egregiously tortured reasoning. Let the judicial activists declare magazines not arms, semi-automatic weapons not protected by the Second Amendment, and citizens have no access to handgun models not explicitly approved by the state!

                            Insane lower court opinions would force the Supreme Court to end this charade once and for all. Even the moderate Justices Roberts and Kavanaugh would not leave such circuit court decisions standing.
                            A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

                            The Second Amendment makes us citizens, not subjects. All other enumerated rights are meaningless without gun rights.

                            Comment

                            • Xeoh85
                              Junior Member
                              • Dec 2020
                              • 21

                              Originally posted by plumbum
                              I can guarantee they aren?t afraid to run out the clock in hopes of one of the justices pulling a Ginsburg.
                              Oh, they are certainly going to sit on this one as long as possible, which is why the en banc court likely superseded the motions panel and is likely going to issue a stay pending the remainder of the appeal. They will then keep the magazine ban in place as long as they reasonably can.

                              However, Bruen was a 6-3 decision. They would need to flip TWO seats to gain a liberal SCOTUS majority. Here are the current ages of the conservative justices:

                              - Thomas: Age 75
                              - Alito: Age 73
                              - Roberts: Age 68
                              - Kavanaugh: Age 58
                              - Gorsuch: Age 56
                              - Barrett: Age 51

                              I just don't see the Ninth Circuit being able to sit on their hands long enough to flip two SCOTUS seats, without the current SCOTUS issuing an extraordinary writ and taking the case up before judgment. https://www.scotusblog.com/2018/12/p...supreme-court/

                              Comment

                              • Xeoh85
                                Junior Member
                                • Dec 2020
                                • 21

                                Originally posted by AlmostHeaven
                                I literally want the Ninth Circuit to go all-in on using the most discriminatory, segregationist, and racist laws possible as its Bruen methodology historical analogues to defend restrictions on large-capacity magazines, assault weapons, handgun models, and more. Liberal judges would do individual liberty favors by upholding gun control laws using the most egregiously tortured reasoning. Let the judicial activists declare magazines not arms, semi-automatic weapons not protected by the Second Amendment, and citizens have no access to handgun models not explicitly approved by the state!
                                I too would love this. But I do not think the Ninth Circuit judges are complete morons. I think they will be strategic this time.

                                But hey, I would love to be pleasantly surprised and see them fall on their faces. =)

                                Comment

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