Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Flanagan v. Harris 2023 Feb 08 Dismissed as moot

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Kestryll
    Head Janitor
    • Oct 2005
    • 21580

    Flanagan v. Harris 2023 Feb 08 Dismissed as moot

    STATUS
    7-30-19 stayed for Young v Hawaii

    As of May 24, 2019, awaiting selection of 3-judge panel at the 9th.
    // Librarian


    En Banc denied - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=280

    BREAKING: CRPA FILES NRA SUPPORTED LAWSUIT CHALLENGING CALIFORNIA’S BAN ON PUBLICLY CARRYING FIREARMS

    -- See also the Michel & Associates case page here. --

    On August 17th, the California Rifle & Pistol Association and several individuals, with the support of the National Rifle Association, filed a lawsuit in federal court challenging state and local restrictions on carrying a firearm for self-defense in public. Both California Attorney General Kamala Harris and Los Angeles Sheriff James McDonnell are named as defendants because, between California law and the Sheriff’s local policy, law-abiding residents of Los Angeles County have no meaningful way to exercise their fundamental right to bear arms.

    The new lawsuit, titled Flanagan v. Harris, is a direct response to the 11-judge “en banc” panel decision in another NRA/CRPA supported case, Peruta v. County of San Diego. In Peruta, the plaintiffs argued that the Second Amendment protects the right to carry a firearm for self-defense in public. Because California prohibits open carry, the Plaintiffs argued that the Sheriff’s restrictive policy that denies concealed carry licenses to most law-abiding citizens violates the Second Amendment. A 3-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit agreed, issuing a ruling declaring the Sheriff’s restrictive “good cause” policy unconstitutional.

    Despite this historic ruling, the Ninth Circuit took the rare step of deciding, on its own accord, to have the case reheard by an en banc panel. That larger panel found no Second Amendment violation in denying concealed carry licenses because, in its view, there is no specific constitutional right to carry a concealed firearm in public. Of course, that claim was never made by the Peruta plaintiffs, which is why they asked for a rehearing of that decision by the entire Ninth Circuit. The request for full court rehearing explained that the en banc majority decision conflicts with precedent requiring constitutional challenges to be viewed in the full context of the government’s burden on a constitutional right. Here, however, the en banc panel failed to view the denial of carry permits in the broader context of California’s regulatory scheme that requires residents to carry concealed. As a result of its constrained view of the right to bear arms, the en banc majority suggests that open carry may be the only manner of carrying a firearm that is protected under the Second Amendment. On August 15, 2016, the Ninth Circuit declined to have the case reheard by the full court..

    The en banc decision in Peruta sets the stage for Flannigan v. Harris, which challenges California’s open carry laws in addition to state and local restrictions that deny concealed carry licenses to law-abiding citizens. The case seeks to affirm what the United States Supreme Court instructed in District of Columbia v. Heller—that the Second Amendment guarantees the individual right of responsible, law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms, i.e., to publicly carry a firearm for self-defense.

    As explained in the new lawsuit, “the Supreme Court has made clear that the right to bear arms cannot be completely foreclosed.” Because California law prohibits the plaintiffs and other law-abiding citizens from openly carrying a firearm, and because Defendant McDonnell denies them the only lawful means of carrying a concealed firearm, they are “completely barred from exercising their right to bear arms—in any manner.” The court will have to answer, once and for all, whether the Second Amendment protects the right of law-abiding citizens to carry a firearm for self-defense and, if so, which carry restrictions must be stricken.

    To help this lawsuit succeed, you can send a donation directly through the California Rifle and Pistol Association Foundation’s website here.
    All donations will go directly towards funding this lawsuit.



    Please help CRPA fight for your right to choose to own a gun for sport, or to defend yourself and your family. CRPA and NRA work closely together in California to fight for you in Sacramento, in cities and counties across the state, in regulatory agencies, and in the courts. Even with the generous rates that our team of civil rights attorneys, legislative advocates, experts and consultants grant us, these ongoing efforts are still expensive. You can support our pro-Second Amendment efforts in California by donating to The California Rifle & Pistol Association Foundation (CRPAF). CRPAF is a 501(c)(3), so contributions to CRPAF are tax-deductible. Or donate to NRA Legal Action Project. All donations will be spent to specifically benefit California gun owners.

    For a summary of some of the many actions the CRPA and NRA has taken on behalf of California gun owners, click here
    Case Name: Michelle Flanagan, Samuel Golden, Dominic Nardone, Jacob Perkio, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association v. California Attorney General Kamala Harris and Sheriff James McDonnell District Court Case No.: 2:16-cv-06164-JAK-AS Court of Appeal Case No.: 18-55717 U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit Filing Date Filing Party Document Description 2/3/2023 Court
    Last edited by Librarian; 06-15-2020, 10:16 PM.
    sigpic NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member
    Calguns.net an incorported entity - President.
    The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President.
    The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director.
    DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW!
    Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA.
  • #2
    rplaw
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2014
    • 1808

    Great, wonderful, it's Peruta II.

    As a draft it's fine but they forgot something before they finalized it and filed the complaint. And, it's a BIG something. This is California. The State where Federal law and the US Constitution mean NOTHING!

    However, the California Constitution still means something. So the complaint should have referenced the Ca Const. Art I Sec. 1. To wit:

    All people are by nature free and independent and have
    inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and
    liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing
    and obtaining safety
    , happiness, and privacy.
    Emphasis added.

    An argument could be made that, under the Ca Const., self defense is sufficient good cause to carry a firearm in public. But, did the wiz kids include that? Defending life, protecting property and obtaining safety are inalienable rights of ALL PEOPLE. So where's that argument? No where.

    Did they at least mention Art. III, Sec. 1? An argument could be made to support the halfway stated argument they did make that Ca has to obey the US Const. including the 2a.

    The State of California is an inseparable part of the
    United States of America, and the United States Constitution is the
    supreme law of the land.
    But, did they? Uh, noooo. Just like they failed to do so in Peruta.

    Honestly, some people just can't get enough failure in their lives.
    Last edited by rplaw; 08-17-2016, 3:29 PM.
    Some random thoughts:

    Somebody's gotta be the mole so it might as well be me. Seems to be working so far.

    Evil doesn't only come in black.

    Life is like a discount bakery. Usually everything is just what you ordered. But, occasionally you come face to face with an unexpected fruitcake. Surprise!

    My Utubery

    Comment

    • #3
      gogohopper
      Veteran Member
      • Mar 2013
      • 4733

      Donation time

      This needs to win.
      Originally posted by Webologist
      I am in a sympathy-free zone as well. A leftist brown shirt reaping what he sowed after profiting from it is sweet justice indeed.

      Comment

      • #4
        Kestryll
        Head Janitor
        • Oct 2005
        • 21580

        Originally posted by rplaw
        Great, wonderful, it's Peruta II.

        As a draft it's fine but they forgot something before they finalized it and filed the complaint. And, it's a BIG something. This is California. The State where Federal law and the US Constitution mean NOTHING!

        However, the California Constitution still means something. So the complaint should have referenced the Ca Const. Art I Sec. 1. To wit:

        Emphasis added.

        An argument could be made that, under the Ca Const., self defense is sufficient good cause to carry a firearm in public. But, did the wiz kids include that? Defending life, protecting property and obtaining safety are inalienable rights of ALL PEOPLE. So where's that argument? No where.

        Did they at least mention Art. III, Sec. 1? An argument could be made to support the halfway stated argument they did make that Ca has to obey the US Const. including the 2a.



        But, did they? Uh, noooo. Just like they failed to do so in Peruta.

        Honestly, some people just can't get enough failure in their lives.
        So, I take it you'll be spending more time sitting around complaining and not supporting the effort then.

        Okay, it's a free country (sort of)
        sigpic NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member
        Calguns.net an incorported entity - President.
        The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President.
        The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director.
        DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW!
        Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA.

        Comment

        • #5
          j-shot
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2014
          • 1646

          Originally posted by Citadelgrad87
          ...what we have here is a hillary panty sniffer...
          Originally posted by Appleseed
          A Rifleman understands that owning and mastering a rifle is part of his heritage as an American.
          Originally posted by ProShooter
          No man, butt rape is happening like, all of the time in prison. It's basically just one huge orgy.

          Comment

          • #6
            rplaw
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2014
            • 1808

            Originally posted by Kestryll
            So, I take it you'll be spending more time sitting around complaining and not supporting the effort then.

            Okay, it's a free country (sort of)
            Ok, I get it. You're on board with this to the point you take criticism of it personally. You're entitled to do that. No problems. We're good.

            The issue I have with it, is that it's amateur hour all over again. These people get paid big bucks to do this, yet they can't seem to make a simple and cogent argument which encompasses the ACTUAL issue.

            One has to wonder why? Clearly the argument I illustrated above can be included into this complaint without cluttering the field. Nor is this obscure law. Nor is is a stretching of established precedent. It clearly applies to the facts and is an inalienable Right under the California Const. So where is it in the complaint?

            As for support, I'll support the effort. But I won't waste my time trying to spin it into something is clearly isn't. What it isn't, is a winner. It's a rehash of Peruta that will get dismissed based on the precedent in Peruta and we will lose (again) at the appellate level.

            Did the attorneys who drafted this not read Peruta? There is no Constitutional Right to carry a concealed weapon in public. Period. End of game. You lose. Why in the world would someone file a complaint seeking an injunction against prohibiting either concealed carry or open carry under the US Constitution KNOWING that CC is not a Right?

            Did they not learn about the 1/2-step process where the courts will NOT address the OC case if it's a companion to a case with a CC issue within it?

            As for filing only for an injunction against OC, one word; Nichols. Already there, already doing that. Then there's Baker in Hawaii regarding their OC ban. And, Norman is on track to SCOTUS for OC in Fla and likely to get there soon. So what's the point of this case again?

            Were I on the bench and this case was assigned to me, I'd seriously be thinking about an OSC re: sanctions for filing a frivolous complaint. I probably wouldn't do it, but I'd be thinking about it. You can bet the State will be thinking along those lines too.
            Some random thoughts:

            Somebody's gotta be the mole so it might as well be me. Seems to be working so far.

            Evil doesn't only come in black.

            Life is like a discount bakery. Usually everything is just what you ordered. But, occasionally you come face to face with an unexpected fruitcake. Surprise!

            My Utubery

            Comment

            • #7
              lowimpactuser
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2014
              • 2069

              Originally posted by rplaw

              Honestly, some people just can't get enough failure in their lives.
              We’re going to fail. We’re going to fail so much. We’re going to fail at carry, we’re going to fail at the AW ban. We’re going to fail so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of failing, you’re going to come to me and go ‘Please, please, we can’t fail anymore.’ You’ve heard this one. You’ll say ‘Please, Mr. Board Member, we beg you sir, we don’t want to fail anymore. It’s too much. It’s not fair to everybody else.’” CGF said. “And I’m going to say ‘I’m sorry, but we’re going to keep failing, failing, failing, We’re going to make California great again.”
              sigpic

              Comment

              • #8
                Elgatodeacero
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2015
                • 1276

                Rp, your post above is really nonsensical and hysterical.

                If we cannot win on federal constitution 2 Am grounds, then no federal court is going to give you a win on some vague statement in the state constitution that has not been interpreted to grant any rights to possess or own firearms.

                The idea that the complaint is deficient for not including that is truly nutty, and the idea that the complaint as filed is sanctionable is absurd.

                El Gato

                Comment

                • #9
                  AVS
                  Member
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 180

                  Originally posted by rplaw
                  The issue I have with it, is that it's amateur hour all over again.
                  The same amateurs who won a 2A case in the 9th circuit with Peruta I? The ones who forced K. Harris to dance with the whole en banc thing?

                  No one's taking you personally. They just think you're wrong.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    rplaw
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2014
                    • 1808

                    Originally posted by Elgatodeacero
                    Rp, your post above is really nonsensical and hysterical.

                    If we cannot win on federal constitution 2 Am grounds, then no federal court is going to give you a win on some vague statement in the state constitution that has not been interpreted to grant any rights to possess or own firearms.

                    The idea that the complaint is deficient for not including that is truly nutty, and the idea that the complaint as filed is sanctionable is absurd.

                    El Gato
                    Short response;

                    Peruta says there is no Right to CC under the US Const. in the 9th Circuit. So, under Peruta, the FEDERAL LAW DOESN'T APPLY.

                    However, the STATE CONSTITUTION certainly DOES apply IN THIS STATE. You think the 9th can somehow say that "defending life" means something other than self defense? You think they can weasel out of "protecting property" and "obtaining safety" by saying those INALIENABLE RIGHTS mean you can only call 911?

                    As for wining only on Federal Constitutional grounds; Peruta tried that. And lost. It's time for a different strategy.

                    As for the rest:

                    Cal Code of Prof Conduct Rule 3.200(b); Bus & Prof Code 6068(c); and Cal Code of Civ Proc Sec 128.5(b)(2). I don't know if this complaint meets the threshold but it's close. There is little, if any, merit in this filing.
                    Some random thoughts:

                    Somebody's gotta be the mole so it might as well be me. Seems to be working so far.

                    Evil doesn't only come in black.

                    Life is like a discount bakery. Usually everything is just what you ordered. But, occasionally you come face to face with an unexpected fruitcake. Surprise!

                    My Utubery

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      triplestack3
                      Senior Member
                      • Feb 2011
                      • 1286

                      Originally posted by rplaw
                      As for support, I'll support the effort. But I won't waste my time trying to spin it into something is clearly isn't. What it isn't, is a winner. It's a rehash of Peruta that will get dismissed based on the precedent in Peruta and we will lose (again) at the appellate level.

                      Did the attorneys who drafted this not read Peruta? There is no Constitutional Right to carry a concealed weapon in public. Period. End of game. You lose. Why in the world would someone file a complaint seeking an injunction against prohibiting either concealed carry or open carry under the US Constitution KNOWING that CC is not a Right?
                      Peruta, arguing that the myopic view of the en banc panel failed to take into account that while the Constitution does not explicitly guarantee a right to concealed carry, it effectively precludes the 2A right to bear as defined by McDonald, as neither OC or CC are available as a result of the decision.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!
                        Veteran Member
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 3012

                        Thanks for the laughs lol. Suing the California AG, asking a federal court to interpret the state Constitution, see any complications there?
                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          AVS
                          Member
                          • Jul 2010
                          • 180

                          Originally posted by rplaw
                          You think the 9th can somehow say that "defending life" means something other than self defense? You think they can weasel out of "protecting property" and "obtaining safety" by saying those INALIENABLE RIGHTS mean you can only call 911?
                          "Certainly they don't mean you only call 911!', says the court, "You are absolutely free to protect yourself, your property, and obtain safety with the firearm you keep safely locked away in a safe at your home."

                          I'm sorry if I'm coming across as flip. We're all on the same side here.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            MJB
                            CGSSA Associate
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 5916

                            One life so don't blow it......Always die with your boots on!

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              rplaw
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2014
                              • 1808

                              Originally posted by triplestack3
                              Peruta, arguing that the myopic view of the en banc panel failed to take into account that while the Constitution does not explicitly guarantee a right to concealed carry, it effectively precludes the 2A right to bear as defined by McDonald, as neither OC or CC are available as a result of the decision.
                              Which was EXACTLY the issue in Peruta. Read the Appellants opening brief:

                              You can view the U.S. Supreme Court docket here: Peruta v. San Diego Date Filing Party Document U. S. Supreme Court 6/26/2017 Court Petition DENIED. Justice Thomas, with whom Justice Gorsuch joins, dissenting from the denial of certiorari. Order Denying Petition for Writ of Certiorari 6/19/2017 Court DISTRIBUTED for Conference of June 22, 2017.


                              You don't even have to read the entire brief, just read the table of contents for the arguments and issues presented. Notice how they nearly mirror those in this case? Funny how Peruta requested relief under 48 USC 1983 and 1998, JUST LIKE FLANAGAN DOES. Yet a different outcome is expected in this case? Really?
                              Some random thoughts:

                              Somebody's gotta be the mole so it might as well be me. Seems to be working so far.

                              Evil doesn't only come in black.

                              Life is like a discount bakery. Usually everything is just what you ordered. But, occasionally you come face to face with an unexpected fruitcake. Surprise!

                              My Utubery

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              UA-8071174-1