BODY ARMOR: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

[d-r]

d-r, is there an updated 'recommended armor database'? the one i can find is from nov 2015.

while i think i will be happy w/ the steel plates i have, the whole rig weighs in at 21 lbs. i suppose that's not TERRIBLE, but just curious what's new out there a yr+ later.

thanks!

Working on it right now. Just difficult to find the time with all the projects that are in the works.

Not much has changed, since the technology is very incremental, rather than revolutionary. Maingun is no longer making the Patriot 2, and several companies have stepping in to make Armox Advance plates. Currently recommend Chase Tactical AR1000, as neither Spartan nor CATI responded at all to emails regarding their III+ plates.

The market is still saturated with UHMWPE soft armor, in spite of the glaring weaknesses and hazards associated with it.

M5 fiber is still unobtanium, in spite of being far superior to any current armor fiber available.

[big red]

What are the Israeli developing in terms of lightweight stuff. A few years back they had some really nice stuff. I would not trust anything else made in the world outside the U.S. but it might be worth a look.

[dx2]

d-r, is there an updated 'recommended armor database'? the one i can find is from nov 2015.

while i think i will be happy w/ the steel plates i have, the whole rig weighs in at 21 lbs. i suppose that's not TERRIBLE, but just curious what's new out there a yr+ later.

thanks!

[d-r]

after having trouble finding a carrier that could hold my 10x12 plates w/ d-r's spall guards and backers, and also be compact enough for a smaller guy, i took a chance on the SKD PIG. it's not cheap, so was nervous that it wouldn't work (after buying 2 not too expensive ones and having them not work). they say it will hold 10x12 to 11x14 plates.

it's a pretty nice carrier, the plate pocket has velcro all the way around the inside, which is how it can hold 10x12 and 11x14. also has a separate pocket in the back for backers. the good news is the plate/spall guard combo DID fit, but barely! it was a bit of work to work them into position, but they did fit. also was able to get d-r's backers in the other pocket, again, pretty tight fit but got them in there. and the carrier isn't too bulky, i think it fits and covers me pretty well.

thanks for the suggestion d-r.

My pleasure, D, and glad it worked. There's a reason I am recommending the PIG and the Mayflower APC.

It also shows why steel plates are at an advantage vs. Ceramic, and even more so vs. pure UHMWPE plates- thickness. Even with spall guards installed, your steel plates are no thicker than alot of Ceramic plates, and most UHMWPE plates are much thicker.

I am working on my plate carriers, and they will address the current lack of versatility in plate choice.

Foebia, that was definitely a typo. No such thing as level IVA.

[dx2]

after having trouble finding a carrier that could hold my 10x12 plates w/ d-r's spall guards and backers, and also be compact enough for a smaller guy, i took a chance on the SKD PIG. it's not cheap, so was nervous that it wouldn't work (after buying 2 not too expensive ones and having them not work). they say it will hold 10x12 to 11x14 plates.

it's a pretty nice carrier, the plate pocket has velcro all the way around the inside, which is how it can hold 10x12 and 11x14. also has a separate pocket in the back for backers. the good news is the plate/spall guard combo DID fit, but barely! it was a bit of work to work them into position, but they did fit. also was able to get d-r's backers in the other pocket, again, pretty tight fit but got them in there. and the carrier isn't too bulky, i think it fits and covers me pretty well.

thanks for the suggestion d-r.

[BobaChris]

On their website they sell IIIa and no IIIIa. Must be a typo. Upload a pic of the label when you have a chance.

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[Buffman]

picture of label?

[Foebia]

Received the soft armor inserts and on the tag it says Threat: IIIIa

Never heard of 4a only 3a soft armor level. Is this something new, typo, or scam? It from Spartan armor.

[Foebia]

THank you for addressing my comment d-r. The one i had in mind are the UHMWPE. Also caught the article on your site. Thanks for the heads up.

[d-r]

To answer the past few questions:

No experience yet with Safelife. I would recommend contacting them and asking what their soft armor consists of. When a manufacturer says Kevlar, it can mean many things: a laminate, a mixture of laminate and woven, or pure woven. At this time, pure woven, or (much rarer) wovenate construction are the only acceptable constituents of soft armor.

The plates appear to be hard UHMWPE, which as I have stated before, are acceptable as long as their limitations and weaknesses are known (susceptible to temps above 190 F, M855).

The reason I would be leery is the "Non-US made" part. This opens the door to variables in terms of construction and materials that may cancel out any perceived price benefit. NIJ testing is nice, but I have seen plenty of NIJ certified armor not live up to the certification. As I have said before, many times, the NIJ protocol is outdated, and needs to be retired. The DEA/FBI protocols are MUCH more stringent, and reflect real world variables much better.

BEM, I would actually recommend curved for your backpack. Flat is appropriate for a briefcase or duffel, but having the curvature will help with comfort. Chase Tactical AR1000 plates are my current recommend for the 3+ threat level. Chase for the plate carrier would also be my recommend. As funds allow, would also recommend getting soft armor backers for the carrier.

J, they are, but still nowhere near what steel or UHMWPE plates can withstand. Ceramic plates are great for agencies or militaries with the budgets to support replacement, and yes, they provide superior ballistics in some cases. But the price curve for steel (not to mention that it is basically a lifetime purchase) makes more sense for the average shooter. And putting a backer on both sides is both cost-prohibitive and will increase the already thick profile to the point of impracticality.

Foebia, ensure whichever soft armor you go with, it is made from either 100% woven aramid, or aramid wovenate. Avoid UHMWPE soft armor, due to known issues with temp sensitivity.

[DeliveryBoy]

If going IIIA, ensure you get the correct materials used. Standard Kevlar/aramid is not affected by temperature, unlike most of the newer, lighter, thinner synthetics which can lose their ballistic protection when left in hi temps... Like leaving the bag in the car on a sunny day day... Pooof worthless.

[Foebia]

Dunno, those plates are heavy. May go middle of the road with soft 3a inserts. Cant affird the fancy tech. Gonna try the Spartan flex fused core.

[JDay]

I'm not looking for ceramic or the DKX stuff, since my back will get tossed around.

Jerry

Ceramic plates are a lot more durable than you think. If you're worried about them breaking you can always put a trauma pad on each side.

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[bug_eyedmonster]

First off, awesome thread by D-R, Buffman, and everyone else. I read most of the info here, and will be reading D-R's site shortly. I'm looking to add a plate in my backpack that I carry for work for a couple of reasons, and I was simply planning to order a III+ LW from AR500. Since this is for a backpack, should I order a flat one, or a curved still? Also, is there something better I should look at within (relative) price range? I'm not looking for ceramic or the DKX stuff, since my back will get tossed around.

I'm also planning to order plates for a carrier. I plan to take some rifle/carbine classes, and feel like my Point Blank soft armor was great for pistol classes, but I might need to step that up with the rifle drills. As much as I'd like to spring for the top tier stuff, I cannot justify spending the big bucks on something that will only be worn a few times a year. But at the same time, the more comfortable it is, the lighter they are, the more likely I'd wear them. Anyone else have this debate in their heads? After a bunch of research, I think I'll end up wearing the Point Blank III soft armor I have now in a new carrier with new plates, I just don't know which.

Jerry

[Buffman]

Anyone have experience with this company or their product: https://safelifedefense.com

Non USA made armor, but at least they have theirs actually tested and the lab reports on their website. I've been trying to get a sample, but they don't seem to be interested.