BODY ARMOR: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

[rodralig]

Got it! And thank you!

Can anyone recommend a level IIIa vest that can be worn under a sweatshirt that could also hold a plate if desired? Looking for woven Kevlar per discussions up thread.

Thanks!

I ordered this for my Wife:

https://safelifedefense.com/product/multi-threat-vest/

I am not sure what the others here think, though.


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[handjam]

Can anyone recommend a level IIIa vest that can be worn under a sweatshirt that could also hold a plate if desired? Looking for woven Kevlar per discussions up thread.

Thanks!

[DrjonesUSA]

Thank you for the response Sir.

When I was researching my needs - my scenario was simply home defense. Considering my home layout, etc. I decided on prioritizing mobility. Hence, choosing that particular cut.

That said, someone gave insight that one should also consider different scenarios, as well, hence a different and separate setup. I will keep in mind SAPI for my next purchase.

Which brings me to my confusion - AR500 Armor is a brand/manufacturer; while ar500 is the abrasion-resistant steel, right?



I will bookmark this thread for reference.

Again, thank you!


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You are very welcome & I appreciate the politeness but don’t call me “sir” - I ain’t old enough yet!

Yes you are correct; AR500 Armor is a brand, but AR500 also refers to a type of steel as well.

There are also AR600, AR650, etc....I think I’ve even seen AR1000 armor plates out there.

JMO also; I went with steel over ceramic for long-term durability. Been wanting to post this for a while.....

What I mean is this;

Once ceramic takes a hit, gets dropped accidentally, or even gets stored improperly for long enough, its ability to protect you can be destroyed or significantly degraded.

I mean literally; picture a dinner plate; very rough comparison; but once a dinner plate cracks, how viable is it? How well does it hold food with a big ol’ crack in it?

Well, ceramic armor isn’t terribly, terribly different, except it’s held together by more layers & covering. (Again, very rough comparison)

Compare that to steel; sure you shouldn’t technically continue to wear a steel plate after it takes 1-2 hits, but you absolutely can.

Picture a pie tin, metal baking dish, etc; it can get dented, warped, take all sorts of abuse, but guess what; it’s still perfectly usable.

There are many videos out there of steel plates easily absorbing & deflecting well north of 100 rounds without any catastrophic failure.

Ceramic turns to literal dust well before then.

In a true SHTF / supply chain down situation; what are the chances that you are going to be able to run out & buy new plates to replace your busted ceramics?

Unless you keep multiple sets, backups, etc., you could be setting yourself up to be a one-hit wonder.

Just research for yourself the NUMBER of hits that ceramic can take vs. steel & you’ll see what I mean.

IMO, people get too caught up on being able to deflect .338 lapua or .30-06 AP, instead of considering the actual threats / actual rounds you are likely to go up against; which in today’s world is very likely 5.56 and maybe .308 or 7.62x39 from an AK.


To sum up the point is that ceramic can take a handful of rounds before its ability to offer further protection is totally destroyed, vs steel is widely documented to take north of 100 rounds and still keep on protecting.

That’s what I’ve learned & why I decided to get III+ plates instead of ceramic.

Plus it’s nice to not have to worry quite so much about accidental bumps & bangs and if it gets too hot or anything.....

You still have to care for all your gear but steel is objectively more durable than ceramic armor.


Again; in the very real prospect of disrupted supply chains - whether real or artificial - i.e.; governments banning the sale of armor to civilians - what are you going to do if your ceramic plates get busted in any way? How are you going to replace them? You can’t repair them...

Vs Steel; you can take multiple hits & continue to wear it with full confidence.

I hope I’m expressing myself clearly & if there are any holes in my reasoning, please let’s discuss....




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[rodralig]

Which brings me to my confusion - AR500 Armor is a brand/manufacturer; while ar500 is the abrasion-resistant steel, right?

Thank you Sir!


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[ten888]

Which brings me to my confusion - AR500 Armor is a brand/manufacturer; while ar500 is the abrasion-resistant steel, right?

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[rodralig]

AR500 is pretty standard & Good To Go, for sure.

JMO, but I'd have gone for a more standard SAPI cut instead of the aggressive Swimmer cut you got.

The SAPI doesn't offer a ton more protection, but still.... if I'm going to go to the hassle of wearing plates, I want as much coverage as possible.

Yeah but then ounces equal pounds too.... I get it....pounds don't matter if you're dead thoug.....

Basically you bought good stuff though.

Thank you for the response Sir.

When I was researching my needs - my scenario was simply home defense. Considering my home layout, etc. I decided on prioritizing mobility. Hence, choosing that particular cut.

That said, someone gave insight that one should also consider different scenarios, as well, hence a different and separate setup. I will keep in mind SAPI for my next purchase.

Which brings me to my confusion - AR500 Armor is a brand/manufacturer; while ar500 is the abrasion-resistant steel, right?



I will bookmark this thread for reference.

Again, thank you!


_

[DrjonesUSA]

So, I stumbled upon this thread from the General gun discussions sub-forums... Was just hoping that I had stumbled on it way way earlier!!!

Anyways, have been reading as much as I can absorb, but it has gotten to the point of "information overload."

Would appreciate if anyone can comment on what I got Sept of 2018:

https://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-body-armor/level-iii-lightweight-body-armor/ar500-armor-lightweight-10-x-12-level-iii-alsc-body-armor.html

... I also got the corresponding trauma pads...


Thoughts? Thanks in advanced!!



_

AR500 is pretty standard & Good To Go, for sure.

JMO, but I'd have gone for a more standard SAPI cut instead of the aggressive Swimmer cut you got.

The SAPI doesn't offer a ton more protection, but still.... if I'm going to go to the hassle of wearing plates, I want as much coverage as possible.

Yeah but then ounces equal pounds too.... I get it....pounds don't matter if you're dead thoug.....

Basically you bought good stuff though.

[rodralig]

So, I stumbled upon this thread from the General gun discussions sub-forums... Was just hoping that I had stumbled on it way way earlier!!!

Anyways, have been reading as much as I can absorb, but it has gotten to the point of "information overload."

Would appreciate if anyone can comment on what I got Sept of 2018:

https://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-body-armor/level-iii-lightweight-body-armor/ar500-armor-lightweight-10-x-12-level-iii-alsc-body-armor.html

... I also got the corresponding trauma pads...


Thoughts? Thanks in advanced!!



_

[DrjonesUSA]

The only thing Steel Ops does shady is claiming their plates are NIJ certified. They do not appear on the CPL list under their company name. Having an NIJ lab test their armor in accordance to the NIJ Level <> Certified. But lots of places to do that.

They seem to have modest ratings, and aren't afraid to shoot their plates on video. I'd give it a nod

Amidst all this craziness, I scrambled & ordered a set of CATI AR 650.

Already have a carrier + plates for wife, this set will be mine.

Thanks for the info!

[heyjerr]

Aplogies for the late reply.

The IBA (Interceptor Body Armor) was revolutionary in its day, but there is much better available nowadays.

One of the biggest issues is determining the composition of the ballistic package on the soft armor portion. At least five different contractors provided the panels, and they ranged from 100% woven aramid (best, and highly recommended if you can find it), to panels comprised of Goldflex and Spectra (avoid), and I even have some ancillary panels made with Zylon (run away).

The problem with the Interceptor these days is that it's heavy, hot, and bulkier than it needs to be. If you find yourself requiring the enhanced soft armor coverage that the IBA does provide, look into the SPEAR/BALCS system, which incorporates panels that are closer to current concealable vests.

Moving on to the plates, there are three generations of SAPI issued plates: the original, the ESAPI, and the XSAPI. The Original SAPI is equivalent to a level III, or slightly higher. The ESAPI is quite good, providing level IV multi-hit (in my testing, generally about 4-5 rounds). The XSAPI is the current issue, and is equivalent to level IV+. The plates are also lighter, thinner, and more rugged as you move up from oldest to newest.

The biggest issue with any version of the SAPI is that you don't know what life-cycle treatment it was subjected to. If it was banged around going in and out of vehicles/doors, then it very likely has cracks. While still providing protection, monolithic ceramic plates such as the SAPI series loses about 15% of their ballistic protection when there are full-depth cracks in the plate (since the bullet takes energy to stop, and a great deal of that energy comes from the induction of cracks within the ceramic).

So to sum it up, if you already have this equipment, it is better than nothing (certainly better than the old PASGT frag vests). If you can find older CVC (Combat Vehicle Crewman) vests, they had 100% woven aramid panels, in a cut very similar to modern concealable vests. Testing has shown they do very well against current threats, and will be equivalent to level II. Surplus stores may still carry them, and if you can find one with a decent outer shell (which is Nomex, an added plus), they run between $70 and $150.

Hope that helped.

I did find that very helpful. I had picked up the IBA a while back from a gun show (before your post) and it was in mint condition. I then picked up some steal plates but they didn't have any spall guard on them. Is it advisable to pick up a guard blocker or does the IBA already offer that type of protection? I do have the neck guard on my IBA.

[Buffman]

The only thing Steel Ops does shady is claiming their plates are NIJ certified. They do not appear on the CPL list under their company name. Having an NIJ lab test their armor in accordance to the NIJ Level <> Certified. But lots of places to do that.

They seem to have modest ratings, and aren't afraid to shoot their plates on video. I'd give it a nod

[DrjonesUSA]

The CATI has been shown to stop M193 at 3200 fps by at least 3 of us reviewers online. You probably can't go wrong with either..

So both brands are GTG?

[Buffman]

The CATI has been shown to stop M193 at 3200 fps by at least 3 of us reviewers online. You probably can't go wrong with either..

[DrjonesUSA]

Can I please get opinions on whether either of these plates are GTG?

https://catiarmor.com/copy-of-cati-ar500-body-armor-10x12-sapi-cqb-multi-curve/

https://shop.steelops.com/products/armis

The Steel Ops sounds like it has a more advanced & mission-specific coating as opposed to Rhino lining like all the others use; including CATI.

I like that these are AR600, which as I understand it, is the new hotness.

Any opinions between the two brands posted above?

[Buffman]

CATI is good to go. The higher hardness armor is good at stopping higher velocity M193. It's more brittle though, so if you pack a ton of energy on the plate (close proximity .308" very close to each other), then the steel can actually crack.

There's also this which from reading is some newer steel offering from Sweden that's specifically designed as armored steel. Other companies sell it as well:

https://highcomarmor.com/product/guardian-ar1000/