BODY ARMOR: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

[tacticalcity]

I'm tempted to pick up a couple of these plates. Not exactly cheap..but light. The problem with most armor is the weight. They weight as much as a tank. These are significantly lighter than most for their rating.

https://www.shotstop.net/products/duritium-gt2?variant=39721047949504

[Buffman]

Generic Import PE

[Buffman]

What carrier are you wanting to use?

[sirgrumps]

...... The Tactical Scorpion Gear was a top performer for frag control.

Based on your testing, the results, and your comment, I am leaning toward getting the TSG plates. The deformation from your testing makes me think adding a backing pad. I am worried a bit about the combined thickness of the plate and pad fitting my carrier.

[crufflers]

My old spall guards for my steel sets are thin AF compared to IIIA so I figured they may catch frags sideways though the PE… in my mind that’s easier to picture than frags getting stopped by a few layers of aramid… a test would be pretty good video for a popular YouTube channel

[Buffman]

I feel if anything gets put in front of it, It needs a way to encapsulate the frags. if a IIIA panel was "sleeve" like it would be effective. Just placing it in front I don't think will aid much.

[crufflers]

Composite plates given non edge hits don't frag out, unless you put a LOT of energy into the plate and separate the layers. The ceramic part of the plates do fragment, but those fragments velocities are A LOT lower than the frags coming from steel. Some ceramic plates are now incorporating foam, kevlar and or PE in front of the ceramic layer, and it greatly helps. The Tactical Scorpion Gear was a top performer for frag control.

That's great info. What do you think about using the flexible IIIA or IIIA+ armor on top of composite? Ineffective overkill?

What about on top of steel replacing a traditional $50 thin spall guard with a $60 IIIA piece? I think the IIIA+ special threat armor is about $80 if we are talking Longfri...

In general what are your thoughts on stacking armor assuming they even fit into a carrier that way. Obviously doesn't make much sense if it ends up being heavier than a Level IV Composite plate at 5.5 - 6 pounds for one side.

[Buffman]

Composite plates given non edge hits don't frag out, unless you put a LOT of energy into the plate and separate the layers. The ceramic part of the plates do fragment, but those fragments velocities are A LOT lower than the frags coming from steel. Some ceramic plates are now incorporating foam, kevlar and or PE in front of the ceramic layer, and it greatly helps. The Tactical Scorpion Gear was a top performer for frag control.

[crufflers]

Based on some of Buffman's testing, some of the PE/Ceramic plates do seem they may need a spall guard, but many of those type of plates, based on the deformation, backing plates seem warranted.

Spall from steel is crazy. I honestly haven't thought too much about backers with Level IV, but they would be hard or impossible to get into a Slickster for sure. IIIA deformation is probably painful AF.

Would be interesting to see SPALL from steel with SPALL guards vs COMPOSITE with nothing. I would bet COMPOSITE has very little compared to Steel with spall guards. I been wrong before.

It seems like the projectiles stopped inside the composite, ceramic, PE plate types would not benefit from thin aramid fiber spall blocker sheets that work on the surface of steel. With steel the projectile liquifies and splashes out to the sides... wouldn't a spall sheet on a composite plate get punched through like paper and then the bullet would be caught in the plate as usual?

[sirgrumps]

Spall guards are not thick, but why do you think you need them with modern UHMWPE and PE+Ceramic plates that catch the bullets rather than liquify and splatter them?

Based on some of Buffman's testing, some of the PE/Ceramic plates do seem they may need a spall guard, but many of those type of plates, based on the deformation, backing plates seem warranted.

[crufflers]

And most plate carriers will not accommodate all those combined thickness. I may have to either sell my LBT PC, which will accommodate up to 1" total plat thickness or go with steel, and it's weight penalty, to avoid buying another PC.

A lot of times you can work the plates into the carriers... BOTACH Longfri level IV composite plates are on the thicker side but no problem getting those into Med Slicksters (tight AF honestly and they do not just slide in - makes for a perfect stable fit)... I have an LBT First Responder and no problem sliding in IIIA+ Rigid plates. I just tried a level IV front plate in the LBT and it goes in easier than into a Slickster. LBT has a really tight hook and loop under panel and a inside pocket retention strap makes the fit tight enough even with the IIIA+

The IIIA+ hard plates are about half the thickness of the IV. YMMV.

Spall guards are not thick, but why do you think you need them with modern UHMWPE and PE+Ceramic plates that catch the bullets rather than liquify and splatter them?

[sirgrumps]

Here is another thing I have learned trying to pick plates and a carrier.

Plate thickness varies, a lot, especially if one does not choose a steel plate, then most plates require anti-spall guards, then add a trauma pad/plate backer, that is a lot of thickness.

And most plate carriers will not accommodate all those combined thickness. I may have to either sell my LBT PC, which will accommodate up to 1" total plat thickness or go with steel, and it's weight penalty, to avoid buying another PC.

[Big Chudungus]

That could be very covert if you have a reason to carry a clipboard... not sure if the strike face would be directional, but I'd prefer to slide the board inside my shirt with the clip out... so maybe that would be backwards.

I have IIIA+ in some packs. That works if the pack has a good way to stabilize the exact plate size. They are not heavy.

Like I sorta mentioned about carrying a clip board as "prop", not only does everyone have a reason, but it marks you as some low level clerk type person.

Pretty sure in countless Hollywood productions grabbing a random clip board and acting like you are doing something is SOP to blend in or bluff your way past the guards.

I'll get back to you once I get it about Directional. I MIGHT blast the clip off one to use as more drawing/drafting board where you tape corners down so clip doesn't interfere with use of rulers, french curves, squares, etc, and that would ride in backpack as stiffener under laptop and binders.

[crufflers]

nice tip, I think the clip would serve as hook

That could be very covert if you have a reason to carry a clipboard... not sure if the strike face would be directional, but I'd prefer to slide the board inside my shirt with the clip out... so maybe that would be backwards.

I have IIIA+ in some packs. That works if the pack has a good way to stabilize the exact plate size. They are not heavy.

[crufflers]

Any recommendation for spall guards?

The ones I have I think are from the old Main Guns and Cati Armor... typical plate shaped flat nylon container with the Aramid fiber sheets inside... I think they are all over Amazon and Ebay and there are pretty fancy looking ones that look good.

Do the research, but...

https://www.spartanarmorsystems.com/spartan-armor-systems-spall-containment-sleeve/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw1ZeUBhDyARIsAOzAqQKeSqCrFFG2dj35-XdOHYxIfRY70VGsWdVxS39Ge82SFUoexyFF5VwaAsV4EALw_wcB

https://tacticalscorpiongear.com/tactical-scorpion-gear-body-armor-ar500-10x12-steel-plate-spall-guard-blocker-tsg-1012se.html?_vsrefdom=googleads&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1ZeUBhDyARIsAOzAqQIgjOZF2U75OnxM_2Ewi3z_9hgcxlaAS-BN1tEA0cWVLAgZT4L1CHIaAgq8EALw_wcB

https://premierbodyarmor.com/products/spall-liner-for-plates?gclid=Cj0KCQjw1ZeUBhDyARIsAOzAqQJoYZel-F0Qv58Mo_YRt3Nk0lHSZy3ULKZa_Ux6251bhDqcetBdjTAaAh0TEALw_wcB