Rifles for bear

[ptgarcia]

The .30-30 is pretty popular for black bear with the guys over at MarlinOwners.com. If you want a little more oomph you can pick up a 336 in .35 Remington.

[Don Edmondson]

It's not as crazy as you might think. It's not uncommon for Inuits to use 5.56 for big browns, grizz, and polar bears. A year or so ago, a 60+ year old man shot and killed a rogue polar bear which had become a nuisance in a small town. At last light, it charged him from a thicket at 20 yards and he put 5 quick shots from his AR into it. It dropped at his feet. With a 45/70 at that distance you get 1 shot. If you miss you're dead. You can't recover from the recoil and work the lever fast enough to get the second shot off. With a 5.56 AR at that distance, he got off 5 fast and accurate shots. Dead bear.

that was a m16 and he unloaded a full mag the bear was a griz polar mix. Don

[MongooseV8]

460 s&w magnum. 300 grain HP at 2500 fps will take down any monster.

I have a 16" encore carbine that makes for a great hunter.

[k1dude]

that was a m16 and he unloaded a full mag the bear was a griz polar mix. Don

[lewdogg21]

Alaskan guides are constantly scanning and typically overlook their clients. Heck, many even use bolt action rifles with optics. It's because they put distance between themselves and the potential target. When all you're doing is acting as a lookout, it gives you a lot of time and flexibility. They usually already have the bear in their crosshairs if it's getting too close to their party. You pick the weapon for the job. Just like a sniper shooting at 1,000 yards isn't going to pick a .454 Casull. But a lone fisherman would pick the .454 everytime over a bolt action .338 Lapua.

I've spoken with some Alaskan LEO's way out in the middle of nowhere that had AR's in their vehicles and asked them if they would consider taking on bear with the tiny 5.56. They said no problemo whatsoever. Especially since many of their encounters are close range. They (along with some independent reading) were the ones that informed me of the 5.56's history of taking bear in AK. They also said they'd want a fast shooting, low recoil, semi-auto anyday over a heavy recoiling pump or lever action. The firepower of multiple rounds downrange easily outweighed the benefit of needing to have one perfectly aimed, large caliber, offhand shot under pressure.

But personally, I'd want a bigger cartridge that I could still control. I would have no problem carrying something like a Marlin 1895 Guide gun in 45-70. But I'd fear my ability to remain calm in the face of a charging bear with 1 or 2 shots. I'm not confident in my ability to shoulder, aim, and fire quickly and accurately in that type of situation. I'd feel much more confident with an AR chambered in 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC II. Heck, I'd take an AR in .50 Beowolf before I'd take a pump with slugs. I want lead going downrange as fast and controlled as possible. I'd rather get off 6 shots and connect with 4 than shoot and miss with 1 or 2. I'd also want a big caliber sidearm as a backup.

Maybe you're more confident than I in your abilities. If that's the case, I wish I had your nerves of steel. Different strokes for different folks.

I simply asked about guides. I don't really care what LEO's who may occasionally encounter a bear are carrying. Based upon your logic you should head into Africa and after the big 5 with your AR-15 as well. .338 win mag killed the spike in my avatar. I would never consider an AR-15 in 5.56 for elk so why would it be preferred for Brownies/Grizzlies.

[five.five-six]

I keep reading about how deadly .22lr are... but I don't think I would use that in this case. I have never shot a bear, but I think 30/30 would be a little light if I was going out expecting to shoot bear. .300WM and then it's all up to making the shot [/web-r-net ballistician]

[k1dude]

Based upon your logic you should head into Africa and after the big 5 with your AR-15 as well. .338 win mag killed the spike in my avatar. I would never consider an AR-15 in 5.56 for elk so why would it be preferred for Brownies/Grizzlies.

Actually not my logic, but poachers logic. The number one weapon of choice for poachers in Africa hunting the big 5 is an AK-47. So yes, an AR in North America would be the equivalent of an AK in Africa. Poachers use the same quantity over quality logic to take down dangerous big game in Africa. Several rounds of a lighter caliber are just as effective as a single well placed shot from a large caliber.

And I said nothing about the 5.56 being a "preferred" weapon for bear. All I pointed out is it's lethality against bears is no laughing matter. As a matter of fact, if you read my posts again, I specifically said I would want a bigger caliber. And I wasn't talking about hunting, just lethality.

To the OP, sorry my offhand comment has hijacked your thread. 30-30 is probably fine for black bear, which is what you're probably hunting. But for hunting Alaskan Browns or Grizzly, I would want something bigger. And no, I have never hunted bear.

[lewdogg21]

Actually not my logic, but poachers logic. The number one weapon of choice for poachers in Africa hunting the big 5 is an AK-47. So yes, an AR in North America would be the equivalent of an AK in Africa. Poachers use the same quantity over quality logic to take down dangerous big game in Africa. Several rounds of a lighter caliber are just as effective as a single well placed shot from a large caliber.

And I said nothing about the 5.56 being a "preferred" weapon for bear. All I pointed out is it's lethality against bears is no laughing matter. As a matter of fact, if you read my posts again, I specifically said I would want a bigger caliber. And I wasn't talking about hunting, just lethality.

To the OP, sorry my offhand comment has hijacked your thread. 30-30 is probably fine for black bear, which is what you're probably hunting. But for hunting Alaskan Browns or Grizzly, I would want something bigger. And no, I have never hunted bear.

Poachers don't need an instant or ethical kill. The reason AK's are so prevalent for poachers is b/c they are everywhere and readily available. Sorta like in Afghanistan. Not b/c it's some awesome round b/c it cycles very quickly. If it were so great for stopping large animals in a charge don't you think the minimum calibers for dangerous game would be lowered to allow it's legal use?


It appears you are like many on here who confuse their interest in guns and what they read on the internet with what works best for hunting. If that's the case this is a pointless discussion b/c your google fu will just keep feeding you erroneous examples for you to post as truth.

[k1dude]

Poachers don't need an instant or ethical kill. The reason AK's are so prevalent for poachers is b/c they are everywhere and readily available. Sorta like in Afghanistan. Not b/c it's some awesome round b/c it cycles very quickly. If it were so great for stopping large animals in a charge don't you think the minimum calibers for dangerous game would be lowered to allow it's legal use?


It appears you are like many on here who confuse their interest in guns and what they read on the internet with what works best for hunting. If that's the case this is a pointless discussion b/c your google fu will just keep feeding you erroneous examples for you to post as truth.

Please re-read all of my posts again. You aren't comprehending what I'm writing. You keep saying I'm talking about hunting. I'm not talking about hunting. And no, in Africa it's not only the prevalence of AK-47's, they have plenty of FAL's and they still prefer the AK. It's about getting off a lot of shots off quickly and precisely. And why the insults? I've been nothing but polite to you. You in turn have not.

[chicoredneck]

Poachers don't need an instant or ethical kill. The reason AK's are so prevalent for poachers is b/c they are everywhere and readily available. Sorta like in Afghanistan. Not b/c it's some awesome round b/c it cycles very quickly. If it were so great for stopping large animals in a charge don't you think the minimum calibers for dangerous game would be lowered to allow it's legal use?


It appears you are like many on here who confuse their interest in guns and what they read on the internet with what works best for hunting. If that's the case this is a pointless discussion b/c your google fu will just keep feeding you erroneous examples for you to post as truth.

I agree. What can work and what is preferable are two different things. you can use a knife as a screw driver sometimes, but it is not the best tool for the job. Poor poachers use what ever is affordable and available, not what is ideal. Law enforcement use's rifles that can handle a wide array of tasks, but specialize in nothing other than delivering high volumes of fire and ease of portability. Most people going on a bear hunt in AK don't pick a 223 as their first choice. While I agree that it obviously is capable of killing one, it is not the best tool for the job for classic bear hunting. I do hunt game with a 223 that many of my peers think are too large for that caliber and I find it works fine, within it's limitations, but I would not select it to go grizzly hunting.

[chicoredneck]

Please re-read all of my posts again. You aren't comprehending what I'm writing. You keep saying I'm talking about hunting. I'm not talking about hunting. And no, in Africa it's not only the prevalence of AK-47's, they have plenty of FAL's and they still prefer the AK. It's about getting off a lot of shots off quickly and precisely. And why the insults? I've been nothing but polite to you. You in turn have not.

You fail to understand that in hunting almost all game you get one well aimed shot. After that first shot your chances of connecting with a running animal diminish greatly, even with an automatic. So you select a cartridge and just as importantly a bullet and rifle capable of delivering acceptable accuracy and tissue damage to bring an animal down within 50 yards (after being shot) with one shot.

I'm not an expert on poaching in Africa, and I highly doubt you are, but I'm guessing the AK gets used due to reasons none of us can fathom. Could be ignorance, may be availability, may be for protection, could be for what ever. Guys paying thousands of dollars to hunt africa aren't taking their AK47's though. The PH's don't use them either.

[lewdogg21]

k1dude - I wasn't trying to initiate a personal attack on you. Sorry if you felt it was. I only take issue with what imo is poor advice regarding hunting rifle choice on a firearm enthusiast forum that others will read and then recite the same thing. It's fairly common in the hunting subsection.

That and I used Roundtable's new online ordering system and it charged my card for 3x of my order, buyer beware, lol.

[k1dude]

You fail to understand that in hunting almost all game you get one well aimed shot. After that first shot your chances of connecting with a running animal diminish greatly, even with an automatic. So you select a cartridge and just as importantly a bullet and rifle capable of delivering acceptable accuracy and tissue damage to bring an animal down within 50 yards (after being shot) with one shot.

I'm not an expert on poaching in Africa, and I highly doubt you are, but I'm guessing the AK gets used due to reasons none of us can fathom. Could be ignorance, may be availability, may be for protection, could be for what ever. Guys paying thousands of dollars to hunt africa aren't taking their AK47's though. The PH's don't use them either.

Please re-read all of my posts in this thread. I'm not talking about hunting. I'm talking about lethality.

[k1dude]

k1dude - I wasn't trying to initiate a personal attack on you. Sorry if you felt it was. I only take issue with what imo is poor advice regarding hunting rifle choice on a firearm enthusiast forum that others will read and then recite the same thing. It's fairly common in the hunting subsection.

That and I used Roundtable's new online ordering system and it charged my card for 3x of my order, buyer beware, lol.

I understand. But please understand why I first posted.

Someone in this thread said he was going to take his AR for protection against bears in Alaska this summer. Another poster dismissed that post outright. I came to the AR guy's defense, pointing out that yes, an AR can kill a big bear with it's firepower and there are lots of instances of such kills. I never said it was a good choice for bear hunting. But it could definitely kill a bear with it's high rate of fire. I continually pointed out that I think a bigger caliber is needed for bear hunting and even bear defense.

I do understand that some on the internet might misread my posts and think the 5.56 is good enough for bear hunting. That would be a mistake.

[Bobby Hated]

i thought it was rifles for BEER.

i have rifles! lets do this!