Official consensus on hunting w/ nightvision?

[StraightShooter]

I know this has been discussed in the past but cant seem to find the threads.

So far, this is all i have been able to find on the DFG website regarding the use of night vision while hunting:
i) Except as otherwise provided, while taking or attempting to take big game under the provisions of Section 353 or Section 354, Title 14, CCR, it is unlawful to use any device or devices which: 1) throw, cast or project an artificial light or electronically alter or intensify a light source for the purpose of visibly enhancing an animal; or 2) throw, cast or project an artificial light or electronically alter or intensify a light source for the purpose of providing a visible point of aim directly on an animal. Devices commonly referred to as "sniperscopes", night vision scopes or binoculars, or those utilizing infra-red, heat sensing or other non-visible spectrum light technology used for the purpose of visibly enhancing an animal or providing a visible point of aim directly on an animal are prohibited and may not be possessed while taking or attempting to take big game. Devices commonly referred to as laser rangefinders, "red-dot" scopes with self-illuminating reticles, and fiberoptic sights with self illuminating sight or pins which do not throw, cast or project a visible light onto an animal are permitted."

Im not interested in taking any sort of big game. All i would like to do is be able to use it for varmints/coyotes. Doing internet searches I get conflicting stories. Can anyone show me any regs stating that night vision, passive or otherwise, is illegal to use for varmint hunting in Ca?

[duckman1]

I'm reasonably certain that I read a thread on one of the gun forums here stating that it was illegal to mount night vision scopes on a gun in CA. I'll do some searching and see if I can find it.

[StraightShooter]

I'm reasonably certain that I read a thread on one of the gun forums here stating that it was illegal to mount night vision scopes on a gun in CA. I'll do some searching and see if I can find it.

I believe you're talking about this:

468. Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime. This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.


It is well accepted that the scope in and of itself ( not with a infrared light source) is legal to own and use. Using one in conjunction with the other creates a legal issue.

[StraightShooter]

Hmm, ya the laws are tragically vague. Well Im going to at least bug people at the DFG until they give me a definitive statement as to whether it is legal of not with cited penal code. Probably be like pulling teeth but well see how it goes.

[MASTERLAB]

not sure what the legal aspect is, but in general i would say its unsporting

[DirtyDave]

DFG has a Q&A for clarification of such things

http://californiaoutdoors.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/hunting-with-%E2%80%9Cpassive%E2%80%9D-night-vision-equipment/

[StraightShooter]

Hmm, thanks Dave. They still dont cite any regs relating to non-game animals but its clear that they see it as illegal so its not worth pushing the envelope. Thank guys.

[BC9696]

I don't recall the code but at a predator callers club seminar the illegality was made very plain...you cannot do it in CA. If they find such equipt in your vehicle they instantly assume you're a poacher and run you thru the ringer. Now in TX it's not only acceptable...but recommended, especially when firing from inside the vehicle! LOL

[duckman1]

That's it thanks Straightshooter!

[theseacow]

not sure what the legal aspect is, but in general i would say its unsporting

just curious why you say that. Day scope = sporting but night scope = unsporting?
Its the same thing, just at a different time of day. Just because humans are clueless in the dark (because we rely on our terrible eyesight), doesn't mean animals senses are. Their senses are way more in tune with the night, especially since their sense of smell is usually their main weapon.

[FLIGHT762]

Hey Shooter....from all my research I received MUCH different info from multiple LE agencies. Active IR scopes are classified as "sniper scopes" from some 1960's early 1970's law.
And passive or starlight NV / thermal sights are in a gray area and would be to the discretion of the LEO you happen to come in contact with. With most not knowing the law and would probably error on the side of "cation" and just hook and book you letting the courts handle it.

So....??? I have passed on buying a nice gated 3rd gen. sight cause I do not want to deal with the crap that could come from it.
Even in NV there are areas where it is illegal to use them for hunting.

Take care,Stan

I believe you're talking about this:

468. Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime. This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.


It is well accepted that the scope in and of itself ( not with a infrared light source) is legal to own and use. Using one in conjunction with the other creates a legal issue.

Do you have case law to cite on this in California or where you got your information on this? I don't know that it is "well accepted" that you can use a Passive N/V or thermal imaging on a rifle. A DOJ opinion on this would be valuable. You can use goggles or binoculars as long as they are not adaptable to put on a firearm.

I'd love to use N/V for Coyotes, but I wouldn't want to be the test case. I do understand that P.C. section 468 specifically refers to a "Use of a projected infra red source and electronic telescope". I don't know if there's a Calif. Supreme Court ruling on P.C. 468 yet. I do believe if you are shooting at night with a N/V scope and have contact with L/E, F & G if not being arrested, likely the rifle and N/V will be taken and prosecuted. Even if you do beat it, it's going to cost a lot in Attorney's fees.

Does anyone have a DOJ or Court case citation for this?

[theseacow]

Do you have case law to cite on this in California or where you got your information on this? I don't know that it is "well accepted" that you can use a Passive N/V or thermal imaging on a rifle. A DOJ opinion on this would be valuable. You can use goggles or binoculars as long as they are not adaptable to put on a firearm.

I'd love to use N/V for Coyotes, but I wouldn't want to be the test case. I do understand that P.C. section 468 specifically refers to a "Use of a projected infra red source and electronic telescope". I don't know if there's a Calif. Supreme Court ruling on P.C. 468 yet. I do believe if you are shooting at night with a N/V scope and have contact with L/E, F & G if not being arrested, likely the rifle and N/V will be taken and prosecuted. Even if you do beat it, it's going to cost a lot in Attorney's fees.

Does anyone have a DOJ or Court case citation for this?

It is well accepted that you can put NV on your rifle. When it comes to hunting however, all the signs point to NO, although that's pure speculation on my part since I've never seen any actual laws that specifically prohibit it for non-game, only DFG memos.

The subject of NV and thermal on your rifle has been done to death on this forum if you do a search. Here is a thread from another forum I participated in, which outlines the legal use of your NV mounted on a rifle.

NV is legal on your rifle if you follow the guidelines for a legal setup. (check out this thread)

http://www.californiapredatorsclub.com/index.php?showtopic=16632&hl=

[FLIGHT762]

It is well accepted that you can put NV on your rifle. When it comes to hunting however, all the signs point to NO, although that's pure speculation on my part since I've never seen any actual laws that specifically prohibit it for non-game, only DFG memos.

The subject of NV and thermal on your rifle has been done to death on this forum if you do a search. Here is a thread from another forum I participated in, which outlines the legal use of your NV mounted on a rifle.

NV is legal on your rifle if you follow the guidelines for a legal setup. (check out this thread)

http://www.californiapredatorsclub.c...opic=16632&hl=

Thanks, but the URL didn't work for me, didn't allow me access.

[theseacow]

Thanks, but the URL didn't work for me, didn't allow me access.

oops. sorry about that. Well you can do a search on this site or register at that forum to see it. there are a lot of details but it basically comes down to this-





Summary - Thermal scopes are not "sniperscopes" under the law since they are passive. Modern nightvision is perfectly legal too because they don't have a built in IR illuminator. Also, you can have an old school night vision scope with a built on IR illuminator if it has zero magnification (see key word "telescope"). So to summarize this in practical terms:

-nightvision is ok without built on IR illumination
-nightvision is ok with built on IR illumination if it has zero magnification
-you cannot mount a nightvision scope on your rifle AND attach an IR illuminator to your rifle
-you CAN mount a nightvision scope to your rifle and use a handheld IR illuminator or any other method that is not directly attached to your rifle.

[FLIGHT762]

Thanks. I did find this:


Looks like F&G sec 2005(c) is very specific and no night vision device is allowed for taking any Bird or Mammal in California.

Kind of interesting if using a lit reticle or red dot scope could be construed as an electronic or illuminated device. I've heard that these illuminated nock arrows are illegal to use on big Game in Ca. Gets a little complicated.