I Need Your Opinion On This Bear Hunting Method

[Donny1]

I just watched a video of a Bear hunt on YouTube and I am conflicted.

Let me start by saying I am not a big game hunter and I would never mistreat or misuse any wild game whatsoever. Anything I have ever killed or caught has been taken in as humanely as possible. That is why this video was disturbing to me.

In the video they are using dogs to torment, chase and tree a Bear, then have a (aprox) ten year old boy shoot the treed Bear. I was not comfortable with any part of it. Like I said I'm not a Big game hunter and the reason being is that I wasn't raised with that culture and would want to process and utilize the animal. Being a city dweller I just don't have the experience or skills to do that. I appreciate the value of the resource and condemn no one for doing the same, especially to feed their family or otherwise utilize it. But this was not that at all. People of means with high end side by sides and fancy gear using 6-8 dogs to chase down and kill a defenseless animal for sport is exactly what happened.

My problem is I cannot get past them terrifying the poor animal for what seemed like an hour, finally getting it treed just to have a small child execute it and watch it fall 50 feet or more to the ground. This seems to be a culturally acceptable practice to them but I just don't get it. This is not my perception of what a hunt should be. Stalking or even taking game from a stand or hide requires some level of skill and understanding of the prey, an honestly gives that prey some odds of coming out on top. This was just disgusting to me. What about this would make someone proud? You chased an animal in to a corner a shot it, and let a small child think it was okay.

As hunters here I am very curious about how many think this is acceptable and why. In my eyes I give varmints more respect than that.

[hermosabeach]

Dogs are also used to hunt wild boar.... free range bacon


How does a pheasant feel when a bird dog picks up it's scent.....

or a fox being chased by hounds....


or a deer feels when shot

[180ls1]

I think you had a bit of a gut reaction based on a lack of experience and knowledge about the situation.

Hunting with dogs is by no means easy. The bear also died much more mercifully than it would have otherwise.

Old boars are known to run young bears up trees and stay at the bottom of the tree until the smaller bear has to come down from sheer exhaustion. Once they do the bigger boar will maul it until it dies. They will also do the same to a mom and her cubs.

[Trapper]

In September of 2012, California Governor Jerry Brown signed SB 1221, legislation outlawing the use of dogs for hunting bears and bobcats in the state.
Since this was implemented, we haven’t come near the 1,700 bear annual quota established by biologists. As a result, we are seeing more problem bears in urban areas and huge impacts to our deer population. Bears frequently steal lion kills, forcing lions to hunt more deer. During fawn season bears will kill does in labor and new born fawns.
Efforts to trap and relocate nuisance bears have failed and problem bears and now being shot. The meat isn’t donated, hides go to waste, no revenue is generated, and tax payers pick up the tab.

[Donny1]

All the responses are fair and understandable.

Gut reaction, absolutely. And yes the nature of hunting and nature itself is cruel in many aspects.

I also did not say that hunting with dogs was disgusting. It was treatment of the animal in general that bothered me.

I think the problem I had with it was more the feeling that it was more about the sport of it and not the seemingly inhumane and callous way it was done. There were many opportunities to just kill the Bear. Waiting for the entire group to arrive and making more of a spectator sport and a right of passage for a young boy made it feel like just the killing part was paramount to them.

[CVShooter]

I feel rather ambivalent about it. On the one hand, there's the cruelty of it. The bear's last moments are panic & terror. To me, that's not a good way to hunt.

On the other hand, a lot of sows with cubs get shot every year because the hunter simply doesn't see the cub at the time of the shot. Running hounds lets the hunters take a moment or two to assess the animal before taking the shot. Is there a cub in a nearby tree? Is it a boar or a sow? Those are extremely difficult to do in a typical opportunistic kill while you're out deer hunting.

Black bears are also prey animals (grizzly food). Yes, they're scared when chased up a tree. But they live a lot of their life in fear and it's wired into their DNA. It's not on the level of deer, to be sure. But it's there. And there's nothing "wrong" with that. It just is. We don't like to see it. But those kinds of events (predator/prey relationships) are what shaped the black bear into the animal it is today. Nature at complete peace is as much a fallacy as nature in total warfare.

Undoubtedly, the lack of hound hunting of bears has contributed to our exploding bear population and human conflicts in the state. But it has also made bear hunting far more successful for those of us who don't run hounds. For that, I'm grateful.

I don't ever see myself using dogs to hunt bears. I like the stealthy approach. But give me an empty belly & a pack of dogs and I'll throw all of that to the wind & get some food the way our ancestors did.

As for kids, it's impossible to know the kid and the family. If they're all about ego and triumph over nature, then, yea, that's disgusting to me. But if they're paying respect to the bear and taking it in humility as a lot of hunters do, then who am I to criticize?

A lot of people don't realize that bear hunting has taken a lot of different forms over the millennia. The "great bear" (ursa major) was a connection point among American explorers and new (to us) tribes we contacted. Sometimes, the bear is hunted. Sometimes, it's the hunter. But cultures the world over have hunted and revered the bear. It's annual birth, death and resurrection (hibernation) is among the many mysteries we revered and, arguably, is the earliest Christ figure in human spirituality. During the whole time, we've chased them out of their dens with fire, chased them down on foot, chased them down with dogs, ambushed them, baited them & used whatever methods we could devise to use them as food, clothing, tools, decorations and spiritual objects. None of that is "wrong," even if it offends our modern sensibilities.

I'm perfectly okay with our law against hound hunting. But I also know that's my feeling, not some immutable law of the universe. I'll be sad if it ever gets reinstated. Some of that is because of my feelings on the act itself. But the other is selfish -- I know there will be fewer bears for me to hunt in the years that follow.

[stonefly-2]

The ban on using dogs to hunt bear like the ban on hunting mountain lion at all were enacted using the political capitol of people with a similar sentiment to your own.

Both block the sound game management principals the biologists we pay used to use to apply the north American model of game management.

This model has saved from extinction and ensured the health of various animal populations around the world.

A mountain lion makes his living from approx. 1 deer a week.

A bear makes his living on just anything he happens on

(like the brush covered deer carcass the lion was feeding on that week but now needs another)

plus his innate ability to locate various other natural foods like mast crops, berries, deer fawns and grass.

With the sport hunting of lions at zero and the sport hunting take of bears cut in 1/2 from the dog ban come maths that apply to the already decimated population of deer in Calif..

You say you aren't a "big game" hunter as to imply you hunt something else,

if you do (which I doubt) maybe just quit because you missed the wisdom over foolish sentiment part.

Paying to shoot an elephant holds no appeal to me but the fact that others can is the only reason they are still here.

[yoteassasin]

Sorry there Donny boy , you ARE the problem . As far as I'm concerned you post is tormenting me and you must stop .. because.... feels

[edgerly779]

Only bear I have ever taken was with dogs up near Redding Ca. With Guide Dave Handricks. I remember he harvested gall bladder and said he got more for that than my hunt fees. I did not know at that time how illegal that was.

[Donny1]

Just stop already. This is why I take long brakes from calguns.

Some people make assumptions here about "feels" as someone put it. I understand that some have "feels" that anyone that has a difference of opinion is a threat to their long ingrained callous belief that just killing stuff just to kill it is ok. Or maybe because you have been beaten down by the liberals who believe that smashing a fly is no different than hunting a game animal.

I'm sorry that you cannot separate this out but it does not excuse your need to insult or impugn the character of others. I hope it made you feel superior. Maybe like the same feeling you get when you chase a scared defenseless animal in to a corner and kill it.

I fully understand the feeling that every value we were raised with is being systematically stripped away by progressive ideology. I was born and raised in CA and it is awful what they have done the best state in this country, and the country in general. But I am a conservative, I have hunted and fished for decades. I fully support and have donated to the cause to support our rights to pursue these activities. I understand the need for predation to control animal populations and ecosystems. I am in no way suggesting that hunting is not acceptable.

What I don't understand is the need to paint someone as the enemy just because they have a different opinion and a concern for the humane treatment and respect of animals. Did I say that killing the Bear was wrong? I did not. Did I express compassion for the animal? Yes. Some of my ignorance was exposed in the discussion and that was my intent, to gain differing opinions and perspective.

If that is a problem for you than there is nothing more to say except thank you to those who can express their opinion here without attacking someone they don't know and imply things they never said.

[deckhandmike]

It doesn’t matter how you feel about it as long as you support others rights to do it. I’m on the fence about how I feel about a lot of things regarding hunting and fishing but I always fully support those who engage in those activities.

If you don’t like it just don’t do it. But I’ve seen firsthand how the environmentalists love to split groups for their gains. It was sad when they pitted the sport vs commercial fishermen and then both ended up losing out anyway.

Treeing a bear allows hunters to get a good look at the animal they want to harvest, pass on those they don’t and make a clean shot and quick kill once the action is taken. Way better than a rushed shot on the ground where the animal dies from its wounds days later and is never recovered or a sow with cubs is accidentally shot.

Running dogs on bears also teaches bears to avoid humans and dogs as lots of bears are treed for practice or let go. This help keep problem bears away from people and wild animals wild. Lots of good comes from this. Problem bears get put down for things that are people’s fault such as being fed and habituated and then no one gets to hunt them.

[180ls1]

Sorry there Donny boy , you ARE the problem . As far as I'm concerned you post is tormenting me and you must stop .. because.... feels

And with your emotional reaction, you've just run off someone who could have been on our side. In practice, you are the problem as well.

[stonefly-2]

Just stop already. This is why I take long brakes from calguns.

Some people make assumptions here about "feels" as someone put it. I understand that some have "feels" that anyone that has a difference of opinion is a threat to their long ingrained callous belief that just killing stuff just to kill it is ok. Or maybe because you have been beaten down by the liberals who believe that smashing a fly is no different than hunting a game animal.

I'm sorry that you cannot separate this out but it does not excuse your need to insult or impugn the character of others. I hope it made you feel superior. Maybe like the same feeling you get when you chase a scared defenseless animal in to a corner and kill it.

I fully understand the feeling that every value we were raised with is being systematically stripped away by progressive ideology. I was born and raised in CA and it is awful what they have done the best state in this country, and the country in general. But I am a conservative, I have hunted and fished for decades. I fully support and have donated to the cause to support our rights to pursue these activities. I understand the need for predation to control animal populations and ecosystems. I am in no way suggesting that hunting is not acceptable.

What I don't understand is the need to paint someone as the enemy just because they have a different opinion and a concern for the humane treatment and respect of animals. Did I say that killing the Bear was wrong? I did not. Did I express compassion for the animal? Yes. Some of my ignorance was exposed in the discussion and that was my intent, to gain differing opinions and perspective.

If that is a problem for you than there is nothing more to say except thank you to those who can express their opinion here without attacking someone they don't know and imply things they never said.

"How do you all feel about this wife beating that's going on" ?

You feel slighted by reference to your misplaced sensitivity and character yet it's the fact of wife beating going on that we disagree with not your imagined "misuse", "mistreatment", "just killing stuff", need to feel superior and "defenseless animals in a corner" position.

You set the tone for this discussion so don't cry about being served a cup.

Feel how you like about your erroneous perception but you take advantage asking us to defend it rather than argue reality.

You could take "breaks" from Calguns but why not just try to understand that it's your perspective that is wrong?

"Hounds men" are a different breed,

they typically do little if any other sort of hunting and from a conservation tool aspect none of the rest of our commitment and investment of effort can even compare.

I don't mind telling you that the ones I've met were some scary dudes,
it's like what Iron workers do for recreation.

That may not be a visual if you haven't worked around them.

For them it's all about the dogs.

If someone pays to take the bear whether it's a 10 year old guiding client or government entity that just goes to defraying the cost of what they do because that sure doesn't seem to me any way to make a profit.

That 10 year old got a better night's sleep that night than any other form of hunting caused him to. hahahaha


In keeping with Deckhandmike's "different strokes" observation the paying for it part of all that would be a no go for me.

I still hold that hunting over bait is not fair chase and that would include for bear but this video of a kill shot that tickled your ovaries so does not adequately describe what's going on with running bear with dogs.

But hunting with hounds is as sporting as sporting gets, primeval even.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EQ5d9fzflU

[DaveInOroValley]

Be careful out there:

[Grendel Guy]

I was watching TV and I had it on one of those outdoor channels. They were hunting bear with dogs. Had it in a tree and shot. It got hung up on a limb and stayed there until they decided to do some tree pruning with their rifles. Kinda thinking out of the box, but I think it might have put us in a bad light with those who don't enjoy the sport.