Feral Pigeons illegal to shoot or capture

[MJB]

Here we go again......this is a new email where a warden asked the question

I am thrilled that someone has asked the question.

Rock dove (domestic pigeon) do not have a specific statute/regulation for take. As you know the hunting/fishing laws are written in the fashion that it is illegal to hunt/fish except... then every legal allowance for the take of wildlife is specifically listed with method of take, season, bag and possession limit, etc. There is not, and has not ever been, a specified legal take of rock dove, but because they are mostly a nuisance, no one pays much attention to it. It only becomes a problem if someone is cited for it. I have been attempting to correct that by including the legal take of rock dove, and the detail of such take for the last several years. There is no biological reason that rock dove cannot be harvested. It just needs to be specified in law.

With that, it is currently illegal to harvest rock dove. But, I think we will get that all straightened out within the year.

Karen

Karen R. Fothergill
Senior Environmental Scientist
Upland Game, Wildlife Branch
California Department of Fish and Wildlife
1812 9th Street
Sacramento, CA 95811
916 716-1461

So watch out this weekend with dove & pheasant opening this weekend.......

[Spyder]

I'm confused about "where a warden asked the question." What do you mean by that?

[Shoot-it]

From what I understand from your post is since it is not mentioned in the regs it's basically illegal right ?

[lewdogg21]

Wonderful, the government tells you explicitly what you are able to do. Thus eliminating any guise of freedom.

Not very "merica" now is it?

[SonofWWIIDI]

I recall being at a McDonald's when I was young and the bums were using french fries to lure the pigeons in, catching them and then heading to their "home" kitchens.

[leadstorm]

That response is from someone whose job description is a scientist, not a warden. I received a contradictory response from a warden (aka: LEO) a few years ago, relayed in THIS post.

The way US law works, if something is not expressly forbidden, then it is permitted...despite what Ms. Fothergill states. If one cared to follow through with her, they could ask for the PC or F&GC which forbids the practice of killing pigeons - I doubt she could find it.

[MJB]

Glad you guys are seeing the confusion in this email......I don't know what changed but this BS is just unbelievable........i guess tree huggers at it again

[leadstorm]

Glad you guys are seeing the confusion in this email......I don't know what changed but this BS is just unbelievable........i guess tree huggers at it again

So, she's a Senior Environmental Scientist who specializes in Upland Game. That's pretty well all we know about her. We could guess that she's likely a biologist by training (probably with a specialty in Ornithology). She prolly pursued that path because she really likes birds. She may be paid to advise the formation of new regulations...but she is not paid to interpret or enforce existing law, and probably has no background in legal matters.

The lady I got a response from is a warden, who is paid to enforce F&G regulations as well as PC laws. She says "schwack away" when it comes to pigeons.

Consider the sources.

[MJB]

Well maybe so but LT. Mike Ference in SD said no so did the Sacramento dept.

Two guys from NAVHDA met with the LT Friday and after an hour and a half meeting they were told that Sac dept of the F&W said no.....this is par for the course one person said yes & another said no......no wonder we get so pissed about these guys

[lewdogg21]

I'll throw this bigger idea out there. It sounds like you have two different viewpoints on government. There is a segment of society who feels that the government tells you what you can do, another segment that feels that if the government doesn't specifically address an activity, thus that activity is legal.

I've always been under the impression there is no grey area and it's ok to whack those things year round.

[Shoot-it]

They are a pest until I see regulations telling me I can't kill them I will.I do not see regulations about killing mice or rats and they are fur bearing animals right.

[CSACANNONEER]

They are a pest until I see regulations telling me I can't kill them I will.I do not see regulations about killing mice or rats and they are fur bearing animals right.

I waqs going to bring up the whole mouse trap thing. I believe, under CA state law, using a standard spring type mouse trap is just as illegal as a spring type bear trap, cat trap, 'yote trap, etc. is in CA. Just setting the trap is illegal. Killing an animal without following DFW's regs is a second crime all together.

[MJB]

I've always been under the impression there is no grey area and it's ok to whack those things year round.

Me too but after this email from the Navhda I won't push it.....normally I just use them for dog training so no big loss until next summer.

[MJB]

They are a pest until I see regulations telling me I can't kill them I will.I do not see regulations about killing mice or rats and they are fur bearing animals right.

That can be a slippery slope.......I'm sure this weekend I will run into a warden in the IV so I'll ask whats going on.......anyone want to take a bet which side he resides on LOL.....

[NytWolf]

Is the prohibition of taking feral pigeons (rock doves) a new thing? My understanding was as leadstorm posted above. But looking at the current regulations, the only thing that mentions feral pigeons is this:

EDIT:
Okay, re-reading it, it looks like feral pigeons are not covered by the Migratory Bird protection. Too bad the CA Wildlife regulations does not specifically mention the take of them.

Migratory Birds are birds protected by federal law as a
result of treaties signed with other countries. Protected
migratory birds are listed in Title 50 Code of Federal
Regulations, Section. 10.13. This list includes almost all
birds found in the United States with the exception of
the house sparrow, feral pigeon (commonly called rock
dove), European starling, Eurasian collared-dove, mute
swan, and upland game birds (which are protected
by state laws).
All migratory birds are protected. However, a subset of
migratory birds classified as migratory game birds and
may be hunted in accordance with State and Federal
regulations. The list of migratory game birds includes
species of ducks, geese (including brant), swans,
doves and pigeons, cranes, rails, coots, gallinules and
moorhens, woodcock and snipe, if there is an open
season.