How do you hunt nocturnal Bucks?

[180ls1]

One of the reasons this hunting forum is so poor and rudimentary is that consistently when those who have the experience and are very successful share that knowledge they are disagreed with, argued with, or dismissed. The more practical approach would be to attempt to integrate their advice rather than continue on with the much less successful tactics.

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I agree to a certain extent. The problem is people take it personally when someone disagrees with them and get emotionally involved. That is why they have to resort to demeaning others rather than discussing the technicalities of the disagreement.

Arguments are great because they are thought provoking for everyone involved.

180 these two just want to argue, twist statements and call hunters dumb or stupid.......you guys do know we are all on the same side. So it's not you style fine so share yours and move on but don't be a dick about it......we all hunt differently and hunt completely different areas, terrain, land & deer.

Anyways down here and all my west hunting has been for mule deer maybe blacktails are different.

Yeah, it is what it is i guess.

Part of what makes this hunting forum poor is the elitism, Lew.

If those with experience are consistently condescending, people probably won't be receptive to it. I do learn a lot from this forum personally, but it is hard to remain open minded to certain attitudes. It's kind of funny - people complain there isn't anything going on in this forum, but if people do post their input they are treated like chumps. Ironic cycle.

Obviously people here hunt a variety of different circumstances. Public land vs private land pressure issues. Time off work and able to be in the field. Bucks that are nearly fully nocturnal. There obviously have been multiple issues expressed by multiple people who have experience.

Now everyone stop arguing that it's their way or the highway. This thread is asking how you do it, not what is the end all be all method.

Agreed, truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

[180ls1]

No they are nocturnal because of survival and they evolved to be nocturnal. They don't move during the heat of the day unless absolutely neccessary. The same reason why you wouldn't move to water and food during the heat of the day if you depended on living off the land.

Hunting pressure changes their patterns....I watch hundreds of bucks every year through game cameras....they are inherently nocturnal especially during the summer months. Hunting pressure tends to make them move to areas where there is less pressure.

You can go to the bucks but your success on big bucks is going to significantly drop.

You do all of the above to increase your chances on catching those bucks moving from bed to water/food.

You can do what you want I really don't care. You'll push more bucks off public onto private land and potentially areas that my buddies now hunt in CA. I'm happy for you guys. Push em all off.

I love it when I hunt land next to public areas....deer everywhere...they get pushed over by the boneheads that don't know how to hunt. They just walk and hope to get lucky.

I'm seeing people get smarter though....I finally talked my good buddy out of just walking the woods in hopes of seeing one. Sure he saw bucks from time to time. Now that I've gotten him to settle down and really take the time to hunt them...he sees more deer and bigger deer on his property. He shoots less but the quality of the deer and the amount of deer he sees has tripled in 3 years. He's finally learning why it pays to stay out of beds and keep the deer on your property. If you don't kill him this year he'll be bigger next year.

There is a problem with your argument though. Its very common to see bucks out during the day when its not season and then when season starts they suddenly become nocturnal. You cannot tell me that's strictly heat related because the weather cools in the fall (when season usually opens).

Is there an element of weather effecting their habits or them being nocturnal? Sure, but to say that hunting pressure does not have an influence on a buck going nocturnal goes against the overwhelming majority of evidence.

[jmonte35]

Part of what makes this hunting forum poor is the elitism, Lew.

If those with experience are consistently condescending, people probably won't be receptive to it. I do learn a lot from this forum personally, but it is hard to remain open minded to certain attitudes. It's kind of funny - people complain there isn't anything going on in this forum, but if people do post their input they are treated like chumps. Ironic cycle.

Obviously people here hunt a variety of different circumstances. Public land vs private land pressure issues. Time off work and able to be in the field. Bucks that are nearly fully nocturnal. There obviously have been multiple issues expressed by multiple people who have experience.

Now everyone stop arguing that it's their way or the highway. This thread is asking how you do it, not what is the end all be all method.

I'll buy that...however,

If someone says, when I go duck hunting, I wear blaze orange because it's the best way to do it. You wouldn't ???

Like I said before...I don't really care how anyone hunts. An old buck is probably the most difficult animals to defeat. They are incredibly smart. They will have an exit strategy and the slightest bit of pressure will make them move to the next county and further promote complete nocturnal movement.

Pushing deer was a way of life for us in NY but very strategic...we load up...know the woods...know the exits. We do it as a team. But as soon we push a big buck if we don't shoot it we rarely see it again. Sometimes we get very lucky and push it out of another block of woods a day or two later. I'll say though...we only do this the last week or two of firearm season. Even with 10 guys working together on 100 acre blocks bucks still get by us. They are watching your every move. If we see small bucks we almost always have an opportunity and usually pass. I'd say that small bucks we would have about a 80% success rate if we boot them. Big bucks >3 1/2 YO....we probably have a 5% success rate once we boot them.

Public land is no different....let someone else boot them to you. When I first moved to Cali I hunted Knoxville and had good success...no monsters but I shot some halfway decent bucks and got a friend of mine a real nice 3x3 as his first buck. I sat on a ridge with good vision. Watched...I saw some decent bucks right away. What I found laughable is every time I saw a buck I would watch it....he would usually begin to circle and head to a thicket about 20 minutes later..blaze orange walking slowly through the same opening. I laughed my butt off watching hunters push deer all over the country side. I watched their escape routes. I payed attention to where they moved when pressured...Usually areas that no one would go. I looked at google looked at the feeds and structure of the draw. My second year I was successful hunting that same draw...sitting on the edges with the right wind between water and their area. I now know about 3 different areas in the Knoxville WA that will produce deer just about every year without too much effort. Maybe 5-10 hunts a season.

My point is if you know where they like to be stay out of that area and hunt the fringes. You go in you boot everything and leave a whole bunch of scent it will usually take at least a couple weeks to recover if at all that season.

So once again...keep pushing I don't care I'll watch the comedy from a far.

[jmonte35]

There is a problem with your argument though. Its very common to see bucks out during the day when its not season and then when season starts they suddenly become nocturnal. You cannot tell me that's strictly heat related because the weather cools in the fall (when season usually opens).

Is there an element of weather effecting their habits or them being nocturnal? Sure, but to say that hunting pressure does not have an influence on a buck going nocturnal goes against the overwhelming majority of evidence.

You need to go back to deer school and understand their biology...while I would agree Nocturnal is a bad term because they are technically crepuscular they are designed to see very well during darkness because you see some animals during the day does not mean that is their primary movement times. Pressure will absolutely change them to being more "nocturnal". But they are designed to operate during twilight.

And I promise you just because you see a few deer during the day...what you don't see is the 50 that are under your nose at night. Go out spotlighting on public or private land some time. You'll be absolutely shocked by the deer you will see. People say there's no deer but theyre there.

Also the deer season is actually set up so you have limited success...deer in spring and early summer have much different habits and some of that is learned from generations of pressure from both humans and predators.

[180ls1]

No they are nocturnal because of survival and they evolved to be nocturnal. They don't move during the heat of the day unless absolutely neccessary. The same reason why you wouldn't move to water and food during the heat of the day if you depended on living off the land.

Here you disagree with me when I made the point that deer can become nocturnal as a result of hunting pressure.

. They will have an exit strategy and the slightest bit of pressure will make them move to the next county and further promote complete nocturnal movement.

Here you admit that hunting pressure drives deer to become nocturnal.


At this point it is no longer worth discussing the issue with you.

[jmonte35]

Here you disagree with me when I made the point that deer can become nocturnal as a result of hunting pressure.



Here you admit that hunting pressure drives deer to become nocturnal.


At this point it is no longer worth discussing the issue with you.

What I'm trying to tell you is deer are primarily night time feeders and rarely move comfortably during periods of daylight.

Your argument is that only hunting pressure makes them nocturnal. THAT IS NOT TRUE. While hunting pressure will make them less likely to move during the day....the real issue is that hunting pressure will move them out of the area...when it comes to their beds.

Deer are creatures of the night....you're hoping to catch them during hours of daylight...if you move them out of your area guess how many deer you will see during hours of daylight if you make that mistake??? NONE.

Most big bucks I've ever seen are nocturnal movers so your best chance to catch one is make them as comfortable as possible in their environment to keep them in your area. There's countless documented research of big buck movement and hunting strategies...not one of them is go in their beds unless you have a team and are prepared to push them out of the area for good.

If you want to shoot big bucks you could start by getting advice from those of us who have killed big deer and elk with relatively high success rates. Or don't I don't care.

[180ls1]

What I'm trying to tell you is deer are primarily night time feeders and rarely move comfortably during periods of daylight.

Your argument is that only hunting pressure makes them nocturnal. THAT IS NOT TRUE. While hunting pressure will make them less likely to move during the day....the real issue is that hunting pressure will move them out of the area...when it comes to their beds.

Deer are creatures of the night....you're hoping to catch them during hours of daylight...if you move them out of your area guess how many deer you will see during hours of daylight if you make that mistake??? NONE.

Most big bucks I've ever seen are nocturnal movers so your best chance to catch one is make them as comfortable as possible in their environment to keep them in your area. There's countless documented research of big buck movement and hunting strategies...not one of them is go in their beds unless you have a team and are prepared to push them out of the area for good.

If you want to shoot big bucks you could start by getting advice from those of us who have killed big deer and elk with relatively high success rates. Or don't I don't care.

I agreed with you earlier that weather patterns do effect their patterns and that is is not strictly hunting pressure, you can read it in my post several posts above. You are outright lying at this point.

Secondly why do you have to constantly speak down to me or anyone else on here that disagrees with you? Inferring that you know more than I do. You know nothing about me and what I have killed.

[MJB]

You are so full of yourself J......like 180 said how do you know what we've killed I don't see you as any type of expert no way........look up archery hunting big mule deer at tree line if you don't think it works they ALL hunt them in their beds. It's the only way to get them with in range in open country. But what do P&Y trophy hunters know......more than anyone on here that's a given.

[mountainmark]

i've only hunted deer on public land, been fairly successful, we're meat hunters.

we keep an eye on weather and the moon phase. when there is little to no moon and we get cold/freezing, wet weather, we have seen more bucks.

my thought, when there is freezing *** rain or snow during the night they may hunker down and become less nocturnal. They seam to be active/eating in the morning, i remember seeing them early in the morning, before sun up, they seam to be on a eastern facing hill, where the sun will hit them early. My thought on that, is they burn energy during the night hunkered down and staying warm, so they move out early to eat and warm up from the sun.

but there are the times when its 80 degrees in september, sign is old and dry, its friggin hot all morning and day....maybe half of our 4 or 6 person group might see a doe....and the bucks are just a myth.

i think the heat and the brightness of the moon help to make them nocturnal and the freezing weather pushes them around and out of their comfort zone.

[jmonte35]

You are so full of yourself J......like 180 said how do you know what we've killed I don't see you as any type of expert no way........look up archery hunting big mule deer at tree line if you don't think it works they ALL hunt them in their beds. It's the only way to get them with in range in open country. But what do P&Y trophy hunters know......more than anyone on here that's a given.

I have a couple P&Y animals. If you go back two issues ago you'll see my latest buck. Tree line hunting down wind is a spot/stalk technique one I've used hundreds of times. What you were suggesting is stalking them by walking their trails and trying to bump them off of beds and "texas heart shot" them.

Highly different technique. Spotting an animal in a bed from a great distance and putting a stalk on is wholistically different than what your original posts even mentioned.

I'm not full of myself just being real.....sorry if I've offended you...not really because I don't care for this cry baby PC world we live in.

If we are talking a spot/stalk methodology and not just walking into bedding grounds than we can talk those techniques and how they can be good by staying high/not casting shadows/and absolutely staying down wind. If you can't get a stalk try to anticipate it's exit and be ready. But once again this is an open country technique and you're not going into established bedding areas.

[jmonte35]

i've only hunted deer on public land, been fairly successful, we're meat hunters.

we keep an eye on weather and the moon phase. when there is little to no moon and we get cold/freezing, wet weather, we have seen more bucks.

my thought, when there is freezing *** rain or snow during the night they may hunker down and become less nocturnal. They seam to be active/eating in the morning, i remember seeing them early in the morning, before sun up, they seam to be on a eastern facing hill, where the sun will hit them early. My thought on that, is they burn energy during the night hunkered down and staying warm, so they move out early to eat and warm up from the sun.

but there are the times when its 80 degrees in september, sign is old and dry, its friggin hot all morning and day....maybe half of our 4 or 6 person group might see a doe....and the bucks are just a myth.

i think the heat and the brightness of the moon help to make them nocturnal and the freezing weather pushes them around and out of their comfort zone.

Weather plays a huge factor in deer movement. No doubt.

[24Sailor]

I'm really curious about the "hunting pressure" effect. I can go out in my field and target shoot when monster bucks browsing in plain sight. Sure they spook and run off unless I shoot really often (at which point they generally just walk back into the woods). Either way, the same deer are right back there the next day or even an hour or so later. This also is illustrated in my earlier post of how to achieve a high successful kill rate of nocturnal bucks (but as Nick pointed out it's probably frowned upon as a legal method of take even though the season seems to be year round) there is one trail about 125 yards north of my driveway where carcasses and bleached bones are stacked like cordwood next to the road. Yet the deer continue to cross there. Sure you can push a blackmail out of its bed, but I doubt it goes far and may even return to that same bedding area a few days later. The bedding areas they use once the antlers harden up in my area are in near impenetrable brush with multiple entrances and exits. I don't even go look for the bedding areas any more.

[jmonte35]

I'm really curious about the "hunting pressure" effect. I can go out in my field and target shoot when monster bucks browsing in plain sight. Sure they spook and run off unless I shoot really often (at which point they generally just walk back into the woods). Either way, the same deer are right back there the next day or even an hour or so later. This also is illustrated in my earlier post of how to achieve a high successful kill rate of nocturnal bucks (but as Nick pointed out it's probably frowned upon as a legal method of take even though the season seems to be year round) there is one trail about 125 yards north of my driveway where carcasses and bleached bones are stacked like cordwood next to the road. Yet the deer continue to cross there. Sure you can push a blackmail out of its bed, but I doubt it goes far and may even return to that same bedding area a few days later. The bedding areas they use once the antlers harden up in my area are in near impenetrable brush with multiple entrances and exits. I don't even go look for the bedding areas any more.

It has some merit to be discussed....I agree...many times throughout the year I see big bucks with relative ease. I'm prepping and planting food plots right now and I have already seen some monsters....they don't seem to pay me any mind whatsoever...if I stop and look at them they will boot...but if I keep moving or keep riding the ATV they just continue to browse.

I used to have a target range on the place I hunted in Cali and would see the same thing. Noise doesn't necessarily spook them. They are smarter than you think and understand/correlate the difference between noise and human presence comparative to being hunted. It's really odd and something I've noticed over the years. They are really very intelligent animals.

Another example....I have trail cameras out nearly year long. I check them relatively often as they are not in their bedding areas...I would see hundreds of deer. Last year I put a blind up near a trail camera location. It took me almost 3 weeks to get another picture of a deer on that camera. Although the blind was brushed in well it looked out of place. They knew that something wasn't right and it took them a long time to acclimate.

Road kill is a totally different story....they likely have to cross for survival...likely a couple hundred thousand year old trail that was paved over in the last century. Remember some of these deer especially black tails/mule deer are blue printed on their routines and will take a long time to evolve and avoid cars. Humans have always been a natural predator of deer and are also blue printed on their smells and movement. Likely why the same spot every year there is road kill.

It's really an amazing thing to watch and I've seen it soo many times....old bucks get old because they are smart they will have some comfort in your area but if you put pressure on them other than the occasional casual encounter they will change their ways. You're not entering his safe zone either...he is entering your zone and obviously doesn't feel threatened...but I can almost guarantee if you spend any time in his bedding area (safe zone)...he will likely leave the area or at least that bed for a good period of time.

[Untamed1972]

What I'm trying to tell you is deer are primarily night time feeders and rarely move comfortably during periods of daylight.

Your argument is that only hunting pressure makes them nocturnal. THAT IS NOT TRUE. While hunting pressure will make them less likely to move during the day....the real issue is that hunting pressure will move them out of the area...when it comes to their beds.

Deer are creatures of the night....you're hoping to catch them during hours of daylight...if you move them out of your area guess how many deer you will see during hours of daylight if you make that mistake??? NONE.

Most big bucks I've ever seen are nocturnal movers so your best chance to catch one is make them as comfortable as possible in their environment to keep them in your area. There's countless documented research of big buck movement and hunting strategies...not one of them is go in their beds unless you have a team and are prepared to push them out of the area for good.

If you want to shoot big bucks you could start by getting advice from those of us who have killed big deer and elk with relatively high success rates. Or don't I don't care.

Yep.....which is also why it's easier to catch them moving during the day after an especially cold storm moves thru, or just longer periods of cold. During those times they will bed down at night, then get up and move and try to get out in the sun in the morning to warm up.

Down here in SD, I've always had the best success getting eyes on deer the morning after a storm moves thru. Otherwise if it's warm...they're not moving during the day.....but right at sunset they get up and start moving. So you're most likely to find them in those last 30min's of legal shooting on warm days.

[Don@Tahoe]