I hate bug out bags

[Salty]

Read about ultralight backpacking and people like Emma "Grandma" Gatewood and Ray Jardine, then ask yourself if what you really need is more stuff, or more knowledge and practice.

Do you really need a cooking pot, AND an eating bowl? Could you ditch that big thick sleeping bag in favor of a thinner-lighter one and simply sleep in your clothes? Is that big ol' camp stove and those fuel canisters really necessary, or could you just cook over a fire or find some coffee cans on your way out of civilization to make a wood stove out of? Do you really need a weeks worth of clothes, or can you simply wash what you have or go stanky? Are you going to need a trunk full of water (that will eventually run out), or will boiling, tabs, or filters work? Do you really need a 10lb Rambo knife, or will a Leatherman do? How about that commando shovel? WTF are you gonna do with that than a potting trowel, rock, or small log can't do?

You're surviving here, not going on a car camping vacation.

When buying gear, also remember that a lot of the hunter / car camping / zombie survival stuff is decades behind when it comes to size and weight. Items meant for hikers, backpackers, kayakers, climbers, etc, tend to be much lighter and just overall better products.

[MrsFS]

Tonykat check out the show Jericho on netflix. Still working my way through the season and a half. Bummed that is was cancelled.
I plan for a GHB so if I had to walk home from work 15miles (may be longer if dodging main roads). Having a verbalized plan ahead of time is important if communications are down. We also have a plan of where to meet up if we can't stay in SoCal and we are separated.
As far as a camping stove, I have heard those, .99 cent foot tall candle can heat small cans of food (less weight to carry).
I am also trying to skill build. It's great if you have the stuff, but it doesn't matter if you don't know how to use it.
Still working on adding a firearm.

[Salty]

I've also heard those candles are worthless (not enough heat to boil water, etc,) although I've never tried one.

Again though, unless you're bugging out to a boat or barren desert landscape, I question why you need any kind of stove, sans MAYBE a backpacking wood stove. But again, you can likely find some cans, rocks, random metal, etc, to make one on your own, or just cook over an open fire. I can't imagine too many places where there isn't stuff to burn. Wood, paper, upholstery, etc, etc, etc.

Now if you're bugging in, a camping stove, BBQ, backyard fire ring, etc, all sound like great ideas as we're not worrying about weight and space.

[OHOD]

I have a backpack that I use year round for camping. This is my BOB.
This BOB weighs in at 35 lbs.

Sidearm: SW MP 40
Rifle: SW MP 15
Harvesting rifle: 10/22
Mouse Gun in my pocket.

[Revulshawn]

I agree with the above post regarding camping. The more you camp, the more you know what you really need for short-midterm stays away from home. Also- the key to reducing your BOB and long-term emergency packs is knowledge. The more you KNOW about how to build, forage, hunt, cook, salvage water, and find/build shelter, the less you need to carry. Nature provides, and the Dude abides

[OHOD]

I've also heard those candles are worthless (not enough heat to boil water, etc,) although I've never tried one.

Again though, unless you're bugging out to a boat or barren desert landscape, I question why you need any kind of stove, sans MAYBE a backpacking wood stove. But again, you can likely find some cans, rocks, random metal, etc, to make one on your own, or just cook over an open fire. I can't imagine too many places where there isn't stuff to burn. Wood, paper, upholstery, etc, etc, etc.

Now if you're bugging in, a camping stove, BBQ, backyard fire ring, etc, all sound like great ideas as we're not worrying about weight and space.

Cooking fires leave a trace when you move on.
Say you stay the night in the valley as your moving to the mountains. You make a small fire to cook your dinner or heat water.
If someone is following you, the ashes say "I was here and I cooked something"

Small backpacking stoves do not leave a trace.
For example
MSR Pocket rocket.
Isopropane fuel cannister.

Set it up, cook, take it down. No evidence.

There is definitely a place for the small backpacking stove.

[OHOD]

I agree with the above post regarding camping. The more you camp, the more you know what you really need for short-midterm stays away from home. Also- the key to reducing your BOB and long-term emergency packs is knowledge. The more you KNOW about how to build, forage, hunt, cook, salvage water, and find/build shelter, the less you need to carry. Nature provides, and the Dude abides

Well said.
I have a GHB in my truck.

My BOB is used every time I go camping.

[Salty]

Cooking fires leave a trace when you move on.
Say you stay the night in the valley as your moving to the mountains. You make a small fire to cook your dinner or heat water.
If someone is following you, the ashes say "I was here and I cooked something"

Small backpacking stoves do not leave a trace.
For example
MSR Pocket rocket.
Isopropane fuel cannister.

Set it up, cook, take it down. No evidence.

There is definitely a place for the small backpacking stove.

Not really something I'd personally worry too much about. The lighter your kit and the more experienced you are, the faster you're gonna move. Even .25mph faster makes a noticeable difference over the course of a day, let alone multiple days. Either way, I think the probability that you'll run out of fuel is significantly higher than the probability that someone will go on a multi-day stalking excursion trying to track you down. They're gonna have your foot prints either way, so I don't see what much of a difference it makes.

I'd also argue that you really don't need four different firearms to bug out. Pick one or two and be done with it. The added weight of all those guns and ammo is again gonna do more harm than good.

[ElToro]

i have plenty of gear at home and am prepared for bad stuff once i make it home. wife and 2 small kids are always home. i work in san fran and live in the outer eat bay. if STHF when I'm at work, I'm in for a long walk. in my desk drawer at work i keep an innoccous backpack with a water bladder and a few gallons of fresh water. in my bag i have a change of cpants and some old boots and socks and a heavy hoodie ( i wear business outfit daily) and a ball cap of the local pro team some shelter provisions and some candy bars and a few cans of sardines/oysters /spam (protein and metal for future use) . also a leatherman and some matches and candles and a LED flashlight and small FAK. if SHTF when at work my plan is to fill the bladder with fresh water at the office and change clothes and take as much water as i can with me get the bag and head home. im prepared that it may be a 2 day trip. of course i dont have a gun because i cant leave one at work and it would be the end of my career if caught with one. if one of the major bridges goes out its head south to nearest friends or parents house. if a bridge is still open its head east to get home. i take BART everyday so my car is parked at the train station. i do keep some gear in my car. my work bag doesnt weigh much and just sits until it is hopefully never used. i rotate out the water and canned meat every 6 months or so. easy enough to just walk in the door at work with that and nobody even says anything. my plan is to not look like a business man wearing uncomfortable shoes and clothes but to change into normal street clothes and blend in and vamoose..

any suggestions for adding ? maybe a wool beanie for an outdoor sleepover and wool longjohns. maybe a safety orange vest that weighs nothing and costs little ? chemical light sticks ? again im looking at least 1 night overnight and possibly 2 to hike the 30-40 miles as the crow flies trip home. and while it doesnt snow here it could get really cold in the winter

in the bay area i fear a major quake or a terrorist event (dirty bomb)

[Richard Erichsen]

Hoofin' it to where?

BOB's are worthless if you don't have a clear, safe, accessible destination in mind.
Unless, of course, you simply plan to use your BOB to BO to the local FEMA camp, where they'll take most of your stuff away anyways.

Better to make sure that you have enough to hunker down at home and work towards developing a solid retreat plan, then making your BOB.

But the fact that you're even thinking about preparedness at all puts you ahead of most people, so keep it up!

QQQ +100

A major flaw in most folks planning is not having multiple paths to multiple locations since any one of them could become inaccessible after a geographically or statistically probable event in CA: 1) Wildfires 2) Earthquakes 3) infectious disease outbreak

Any of these events, if large enough in scale, can lead to public disorder, loss of utilities and impassible roadways. There is a limit to how many supplies you can pack into a vehicle and its dramatically less if you carry it on your back.

How useful is a BOB when you can't even get out of your driveway because the traffic is backed up all the way onto your street and in all directions for 10 miles? At least one of the Plan X options needs to include sticking it out where you already are until you assess your immediate risks are too great to stay put.

Your house/apartment will at least have far more space for supplies than any car or bag could carry. If you don't smell smoke or see the flames, it may not be a good idea to leave. If it's a viral outbreak - you are exposing yourself to infection. After a major earthquake, you may not be able to traverse your local roadways to get out of your neighborhood with several hundred thousand people trying to do the same thing you are. Aftershocks can continue to heap on the damage and topple already damaged structures, including bridges and overpasses. Never assume you are going to be aware of an event before everyone else is, there is a good chance you may become aware right when everyone else does which means your options could be a lot more limited than your plan accounted for. Once again, did the reasons to leave really outweigh the reasons to stay put?

If you carry a lot of firearms and ammo (this is a gun board after all), you just displaced a lot of water that you'll now have to find on your way. Medical supplies don't usually weigh much, but they are usually quite bulky for their mass and are worth their weight in gold. Do you have any antibiotics in that pack? How complete is your first aid kit anyway? A scratch from falling or slipping because your pack was too heavy and you were tired is inconvenient on a normal hike a few miles from civilization in more stable times, but a minor injury could become lethal under these circumstances and more so if you are alone with no one to aid you. This is another consideration in "bug out" - who has your back?

After mindset, water is the key to surviving any of these major disasters. If the water available is not verifiable clean (color, smell, taste - testers indicate presence of toxins or microbes) and you don't have a way to carry a lot of it, you will need supplies to purify it and be well practiced in doing so. You don't want your first time using iodine, filters or other methods to be in the thick of it, dehydrated only to suddenly realize the instruction manual is missing, the label has fallen off or your vision is too blurry and your head pounding too severely to read it even if you had it. Some water treatment processes known to be effective with certain contaminants are also time consuming. You'll need to be able to automatically recognize how long it's going to take to filter and decontaminate a particular water supply and have test strips you know how to use to verify if the purification was successful.

In the summer months, packing a huge pack in the summer heat results in at least 2 gallons of water per person per day, not including water for cleaning your body (even with a towel dab and squirt for toothbrushing, it adds up fast). I don't think anyone needs a reminder as to just how heavy 4+ gallons of water is and that's just enough for one person for two days when you are exerting yourself in the heat.

You are literally carrying lead when you carry ammo, and something had to give (less food, less water, fewer medical supplies, fewer clothes, etc.) to carry several hundred rounds of ammunition in your favorite caliber(s). If you actually had to use any of it, could you reach it? Whats the plan to get your weapon out and engage in a firefight when you have 100+ lbs on your back and most of your next reload is deep in the pack? Is it even realistic you would last more than a few minutes under these conditions if you failed to recognize the danger you crossing into, weapons and ammo or not? If it came right down to it - drop your pack and escape with your life! The very act of dropping your overflow of heavy items or even your whole pack may slow down any aggressive pursuit, assuming the motivation for the assault is for the supplies you are carrying. A big backback is broadcasting the same thing a large SUV with supplies strapped to the roof and visible through the windows: "I have a lot of stuff to steal!"

An exposed weapon might deter some attacks by a lone adversary or someone not similarly armed, but it may have the opposite effect if outnumbered as you can reasonably guarantee if you are alone and on foot. Once again, was it wise to leave your original position to be exposed, in the open and possibly cut off from any of several possible destinations, including where you just came from?

How far are you going? Where are you going? How long can you last between point of origin and your destination? What happens if you lose some of those supplies? What supplies do you have where you are going? What's plan B, C, D and E if A fails completely or proves impossible to even start? Is it too late to go back the way you came if you are finding all reasonable paths closed to you?

Buying packs and gear is all fine and good, but the planning (which is free) is where 99% of the attention needs to go. Without a comprehensive plan, what are you buying and why? You might have been better off using your funds to upgrade your doors and windows, investing in a bore-hole well if you live in an area you can obtain one, adding sealable containers and food packing materials to your pantry or garage and coming up with a plan involving neighbors and nearby friends. Bug out should be a LAST resort with all the risks weighed out, not a knee jerk reaction to an event.

R

[jmsenk]

any suggestions for adding ? maybe a wool beanie for an outdoor sleepover and wool longjohns. maybe a safety orange vest that weighs nothing and costs little ? chemical light sticks ? again im looking at least 1 night overnight and possibly 2 to hike the 30-40 miles as the crow flies trip home. and while it doesnt snow here it could get really cold in the winter

in the bay area i fear a major quake or a terrorist event (dirty bomb)

Not sure what is included in your shelter provisions, but if you don't have it, you might want to pick up an emergency space blanket. they weigh next to nothing, cost is negligible, and I have spent many a cold night nice and toasty underneath one. for a few dollars more (litterally, like $4) you can buy one with grommets and a subduded color on one side that work quite well as a shelter in itself (combined with bungee cords, etc.)

Also, if you're going to be marching 30-40 miles over two days (as the crow flies... so think more like 50-60 miles) and you're not used to making those kinds of movements then make sure your FAK includes stuff for blisters and swollen feet, and at least one extra pair of socks. I can tell you from experience, when on a long movement, there is nothing that feels quite as good as changing to a fresh pair of socks. It will bring you back to life.

You may have it as part of your daily carry (I do) but a tactical folder would be of use in addition to your leatherman. an assisted opening blade clipped to your pocket can save your *** in a situation where you need it - especially since carrying a gun is practically impossible in this state, while a leatherman would be too cumbersome and time consuming to use.

[ElToro]

thanks i will throw one of my spyderco's in the bag and i do have one of those heavier duty space blankets with green on one side. the flimsy foil ones are worthless. i will also throw another pair of socks in and upgrade my FAK. also will ad a roll of TP

lacking a gun makes me concerned about getting home in a SHTF situation but its walk or nothing in the event of a major earthquake and staying in downtown SF for an extended period even if its hanging out at a co -workers place that lives in the city is an option but getting home to my family is the priority. i could see SF and oakland going up in riots if something bad happens. look how they act when its relatively good times

[Salty]

How complete is your first aid kit anyway?

This is definitely something for everyone to think about, whether it's in your car, at home, on your boat, in your bugout bag, etc. As someone trained in search and rescue, nothing irritates me more than a first aid kit full of nothing but band-aids! Unfortunately, this accounts for most small commercially available first aid kits. Band-aids are great, but nine times out of ten if all you need is a band-aid, YOU AREN'T GOING TO DIE! Your number 1 supply should be gloves (that you know fit you), and those should be the first thing you see when you open your kit. Use them. Next should be life saving gear (and knowledge) like gauze pads (lots of them), a knowledge of pressure points used to stop bleeding, a tourniquet (you NEED training to use this), a space blanket to prevent hypothermia, benadryl, a spare epipen if anyone in your likely party needs one, etc. Next work on mobility, you want to get out of here right? Splints, moleskin, sling, etc. Being stranded in the wrong place may in fact kill you. After you've got all that covered, THEN start lookin' at band-aids, poison oak soap, asprin, tweezers, etc.

Note: I understand that the small cuts and scrapes typically treated by band-aids can potentially become fatal if infected, etc, but they are far far less likely to than something like say... arterial spray... work on that first.

[fourXfour]

This is a great thread. I never knew what INCH bag meant. I definitely will start re-organizing my gear. Most of my bags are dedicated to just ammo or just MRE's. An INCH bag setup will need some work.

1. Get Home Bag for the car. Spare ammo for my EDC (compact firearm), FAK, MRE, water, basic survival kit and extra clothes. Fairly light if I have to walk.

2. Bug Out Bag - Additional supplies for a temporary evacuation. Shoulder weapon of choice and a full size handgun. Possibly discreet transportation of firearms

3. INCH bag - Full on survival gear. Camping supplies and hunting supplies. More of a focus on .22LR and Shotgun rounds for hunting needs in addition to your defensive firearms. Basics in a pack if you have to walk or as much as you can load into a vehicle.

[chris]

Also, if you're going to be marching 30-40 miles over two days (as the crow flies... so think more like 50-60 miles) and you're not used to making those kinds of movements then make sure your FAK includes stuff for blisters and swollen feet, and at least one extra pair of socks. I can tell you from experience, when on a long movement, there is nothing that feels quite as good as changing to a fresh pair of socks. It will bring you back to life.

what i used to do to my old green jungle boots and yes i said green jungle boots is use duct tape on the heel. it would reduce friction on my heels. but also guys and gals invest in good boot socks they alone will make your day no matter what you are doing.