Confused on the legalities of firearms in National Forests

[BrandonCornwell]

Hey everyone.

So here's the background. I'm (relatively) new to owning a firearm, though I've been shooting recreationally at ranges and on private property for most of my life. I do have a license to own my firearm, I have no felonies, misdemeanors, domestic violence charges, pending lawsuits, or speeding tickets. I have owned my gun since February of 2017 (A Kimber Custom II 1911 .45 ACP), and I do not yet have my CCW license.

I am planning a backpacking trip this August with a bunch of friends. I am leaning towards national forests rather than national or state parks because they tend to give longer backpacking trails, and because I have heard that I can carry my handgun with me. In Norcal, as I'm sure you all know, there's a good number of dangerous creatures, both of the four legged and two legged variety. I don't expect to see any, but if there happens to be an errant bear or the like, I'd like to have the chance of scaring it away or, in a last ditch effort, try to get it before it gets me or one of my hiking buddies.

Now, I'm not a scared cowboy looking for a fight, but I would simply be more comfortable if I had the option of self defense if the need arises. Better to have and not need than need and not have.

So while I was waiting for my registration to be approved, I read over the information here, contacted the Forestry Service for that particular National Forest (Shasta-Trinity), and read the firearm law summary. The National Forest Service guy got back to me fast, and this is exactly what they said;

Hi Brandon, The only laws the FS has regarding firearms are stated our forest website: https://www.fs.usda.gov/recmain/stnf/recreation

“It is prohibited to discharge a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property: (1) in or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site, or occupied area, or (2) across or on a Forest Development road, or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result of such discharge. (261.10d)”

For any other firearm regulations in the state please refer to the summary of California Firearms Law https://oag.ca.gov/firearms

State laws do apply on FS land.

Okay, that's perfectly reasonable. Let's check the state laws.

And the information on the stickied thread says;

*2 - National Forest and BLM Details:

- LOC and UOC are legal everywhere except "prohibited areas" (areas where shooting is prohibited)
- LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)
- Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site ("prohibited areas")
- Shooting is prohibited on or across roads or bodies of water ("prohibited areas")
- common opinion is that UOC of handguns is now illegal in "prohibited areas" of NF/BLM (AB144 / PC 26350) not all agree (PC 26388)
- Forest administrators have the authority to prohibit shooting in other areas of the NF but must clearly post this information ("prohibited areas")
- IMPORTANT NOTICE - some NFs are now banning shooting almost entirely - see this post - this makes the entire forest a "prohibited area"
- BLM administrators may post closures and restrictions regarding firearms use ("prohibited areas")

- LCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while hunting/fishing, but only where shooting is not prohibited (PC 25640)
- UCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen while hunting/fishing and while traveling to/from hunting/fishing expeditions (PC 25640)
- UOC is legal for licensed hunters while hunting and while traveling to/from hunting expeditions (PC 26366)
- CA CCW permit holders may disregard most of these restrictions and LCC in NF/BLM

So, if I am not mistaken (which I fear I may be) it seems like it is legal to open carry on National Forest land in my campsite, while camping. It is legal to fire my firearms, so long as I am 150 yards away from roads or campsites, and not shooting over roads, campsites or waterways.

However, I am still unsure about open carry specifically while backpacking. I would like to holster my pistol at my side while backpacking so that it is available in case of a threat.

I feel like I'm missing something obvious here. Anyone have experience/plain word answers?

[SkyHawk]

It is not legal to carry where it is not legal to shoot. So if you got anywhere within 150yds of a camp, developed area, occupied area, or building, you would be carrying illegally. That is the peril, you may be somewhere prohibited from shooting and not know it.

Read that whole sticky thread, it discusses various scenarios that may apply. It seems that unless you are well and truly in the deep boonies away from everyone and everything, carry without CCW is a peril. I would not be open carrying on a well travelled trail.

Your best bet is to have CCW.

And note, there is no ‘license to own a firearm’ in CA.

[BrandonCornwell]

That's fair. The little white card I got when I took the test and all that, then, so that I cease to be/sound ignorant, what specifically should I refer to that as? I was under the impression it was a license to own, but, as I said, I'm relatively new to owning (I always just shot what others owned) and there was a -lot- of information passed around that day.

The trail I am looking at is the Stuart Forks trail to Emerald Lake.

[SkyHawk]

That's fair. The little white card I got when I took the test and all that, then, so that I cease to be/sound ignorant, what specifically should I refer to that as? I was under the impression it was a license to own, but, as I said, I'm relatively new to owning (I always just shot what others owned) and there was a -lot- of information passed around that day.

That is a firearms safety card (FSC). It could expire or you could lose it and still be legal to own guns. That is required to acquire guns (or an exemption, like a CCW or hunting license or retired military or others), it is not required to retain guns.

And plenty of people still move here with guns, and do not ever need that card unless and until they plan to acquire a gun here. Plenty of others owned guns here before that card was ever a thing, and they still are legal to own those guns.

Some states do require a license to own, CA is not one (yet).

[BrandonCornwell]

That is a firearms safety card. It could expire or you could lose it and still be legal to own guns. That is required to acquire guns (or an exemption, like a CCW or hunting license or retired military or others), it is not required to retain guns.

Some states do require a license to own, CA is not one (yet).

Thank you very much for that clarification. I'm reading the other thread now. My primary concern is that some of the laws may have chanced since a lot of those posts have been updated.

[superdave50]

Just a side thought, have you ever worn your sidearm and your pack? Try it at home before you go, you might want a chest holster

[BrandonCornwell]

Just a side thought, have you ever worn your sidearm and your pack? Try it at home before you go, you might want a chest holster

I did see that Alaskan chest holster someone posted in the other thread, and it's attractive. I am also considering a Miami Classic holster, but I would worry that the straps of the backpack would jostle the holster and pistol. Frankly, to date, I've only ever really transported my firearm in the case it came with to and from ranges, and other than that, it's in the quick release safe bolted to my desk.

But yes, I did see where someone mentioned that a belt holster could become problematic with a backpack. I think they mentioned attaching the holster to their pack belt, but then it would come off when the pack came off. During a hike, that wouldn't bother me, and I suppose I could just move the holster to my belt when we camped for the night.

Thank you for the tip though! I will definitely see what is most comfortable. It seems to me that, on National Forest land, 150 yards away from public/developed/camping areas, I can legally carry my handgun LOC or UOC (with mags close at hand) without any legal repercussions.

[AGGRO]

second line

LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)

[kayaker]

I'm going to chime in as someone who has done some hiking and carried a handgun. Yes, it is reassuring to have it with you. You will also find that it's heavy and always seems to be in the way. Anyone who tells you to carry a big gun in case of bears probably never gets more than 500 yards from his truck. Bring something small and light, maybe even consider pepper spray instead.

[SkyHawk]

second line

LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)

I was addressing his hiking plans specifically, which is what he was asking about.

In cased you missed it:

However, I am still unsure about open carry specifically while backpacking. I would like to holster my pistol at my side while backpacking so that it is available in case of a threat.

He has already established that he can carry in his campsite, but that of course only means his campsite, not anyone else's campsite. Not to the bathroom or the water spigot in a public campground. Literally within the immediate area of his tent and that is it.

He wants to know about carrying on the trail. Did you have some advice for him, or ??

[BrandonCornwell]

I'm going to chime in as someone who has done some hiking and carried a handgun. Yes, it is reassuring to have it with you. You will also find that it's heavy and always seems to be in the way. Anyone who tells you to carry a big gun in case of bears probably never gets more than 500 yards from his truck. Bring something small and light, maybe even consider pepper spray instead.

For sure, and that makes sense. Unfortunately, I only own the one handgun (my wife has an M&P Shield .40, but we're leaving that home for her home defense while I am away), so I've got to work with what I have. I definitely will look into getting some bear spray, but I have heard of cases of that not working to completely deter the bear. A sidearm would make me significantly more comfortable, with the hope of never having to use it.

Thank you for your suggestions!

[AGGRO]

I was addressing his hiking plans specifically, which is what he was asking about.

In cased you missed it:



He has already established that he can carry in his campsite, but that of course only means his campsite, not anyone else's campsite. Not to the bathroom or the water spigot in a public campground. Literally within the immediate area of his tent and that is it.

He wants to know about carrying on the trail. Did you have some advice for him, or ??

The rules are pretty vague but I carry in Cleveland National Forest all the time. We leave from camp as in walk out and hunt. Unless there is some restriction such as prohibited by local authority it is legal to open carry while hiking.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/tahoe/recreation/camping-cabins

Firearms and Fireworks: You may bring firearms into developed camps and picnic grounds; however, you may not discharge them near any developed sites or areas of public recreation use within 150 yards. It is illegal to discharge or ignite any type of firecracker, rocket or other firework or explosive on all National Forest lands.

Not sure what forest he's hiking but mine allows hunting and carrying firearms. There is also no distinction as to where in the campground you may or may not carry. The only place we can't carry is inside the rec area that is bow hunting only. You also cannot carry a firearm while bow hunting deer.

We had one Forest Service Officer tell us we couldn't have guns in camp and it was a 1000 dollar fine. So, I asked to see the regs to back that up as we hunt from camp, as in walk from our campsite to the hunting area. She didn't even bother to look it up and came up with an excuse to leave. An actual Game Warden said we could and has never hassled us and he comes through every day.


Some camper was upset we had sidearms.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/cleveland/recreation/hunting

I do suggest OnX maps as most areas are a patchwork of county parks, national forest, blm and private property. Last, carry and discharge are two completely different things and even LE has a hard time sorting it out.

[BrandonCornwell]

The rules are pretty vague but I carry in Cleveland National Forest all the time. We leave from camp as in walk out and hunt. Unless there is some restriction such as prohibited by local authority it is legal to open carry while hiking.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/tahoe/recreation/camping-cabins

Firearms and Fireworks: You may bring firearms into developed camps and picnic grounds; however, you may not discharge them near any developed sites or areas of public recreation use within 150 yards. It is illegal to discharge or ignite any type of firecracker, rocket or other firework or explosive on all National Forest lands.

Not sure what forest he's hiking but mine allows hunting and carrying firearms. There is also no distinction as to where in the campground you may or may not carry. The only place we can't carry is inside the rec area that is bow hunting only. You also cannot carry a firearm while bow hunting deer.

We had one Forest Service Officer tell us we couldn't have guns in camp and it was a 1000 dollar fine. So, I asked to see the regs to back that up as we hunt from camp, as in walk from our campsite to the hunting area. She didn't even bother to look it up and came up with an excuse to leave. An actual Game Warden said we could and has never hassled us and he comes through every day.


Some camper was upset we had sidearms.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/cleveland/recreation/hunting

I do suggest OnX maps as most areas are a patchwork of county parks, national forest, blm and private property. Last, carry and discharge are two completely different things and even LE has a hard time sorting it out.

Thank you for the information! I am looking at the Shasta-Trinity National Forest. I have absolutely zero plans for any recreational shooting. It is specifically as a 'rather-have-and-not-need-than-need-and-not-have" sidearm.

[Unbekannt]

This is federal. Don't worry about carrying. It is discharging where the USFS comes into play. You are fine. Have fun.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

It is legal to fire my firearms, so long as I am 150 yards away from roads or campsites, and not shooting over roads, campsites or waterways.

A word of caution...

If you're thinking about plinking/target shooting while camping, be aware that you're talking about August in Northern California. That means things are likely to be dry and the Forest Service (along with other agencies) may implement some restrictions in an effort to avoid wildfires. Such restrictions would/could include shooting.

As an example, here's one of the 'smaller' 2018 fires in that neck of the woods last year - the Hat Fire. I can't find a link for the cause, but if I remember correctly, there was some discussion about the possibility of it being the result of shooting given the rather close proximity of the rifle range to the ignition point.

Such restrictions would be in addition to the standing ones; which include more than what you've noted. In other words, the regional supervisor has the authority to implement restrictions if/when they feel it necessary/prudent.

I know some people who live in that area (including several who lost homes) and, after the Carr and Camp Fires last year (along with the smaller, lesser reported ones such as the Hat Fire), they are, understandably, a bit skittish about fires right now. Even though many in that part of the State are open-minded about shooting, this is May. You're talking about being there in August when it is, generally, hot and dry. So, bear in mind that 'carrying' is one thing. 'Shooting' is something else, even if not 'officially' restricted.

ETA: I see you posted while I was composing this...

I have absolutely zero plans for any recreational shooting.

That's a safe start. Just bear in mind that if shooting becomes restricted, the restriction could include the carry of firearms.