Cold Steel Chaos - CA legal?

[Marthor]

Felony possession metal scissors...

[sealocan]

oh wise and powerful government of California,
when will you just make every single thing in the world illegal?

at least it would be less confusing.

[Marthor]

Hollywood might as well pile on...
Recent TV show called "Blade Brothers" has a knife making shop in California to make and sell knives.

Felony?


Felony?


Felony?

[Marthor]

defacto legality....
No.

My point is that a company in the business of knife making in California would know the state law. Looks to me like very, very widespread D-ring metal guards on all sorts of blades for manufacture, sale and possession.

Nobody seems to be interpreting any D-ring knife guards as being the same as CA illegal brass knuckles.

[wjc]

I don't think the brass knuckles part is the sole key thing here.

Can it be considered a "trench knife", i.e. WWI Trench knife.

[Marthor]

I don't think the brass knuckles part is the sole key thing here.

Can it be considered a "trench knife", i.e. WWI Trench knife.

A WW1 trench knife sole issue is that the handle really is a brass knuckle.

I think the brass knuckle issue is the only thing of concern. It's a legal fixed blade knife with a D-ring hand guard. The only issue is that the California definition of metal knuckles in the state law is so overly broad, you could include a lot of things that aren't brass knuckles into that definition.

In practice, it looks like many California knife companies make, import, possess and sell knives with D-ring hand guards and so it is that D-ring hand guards are very widely not being treated as illegal.

I find it ironic that the hand guard is the biggest safety feature on the knife. LOL

[Zedrek]

My point is that a company in the business of knife making in California would know the state law. Looks to me like very, very widespread D-ring metal guards on all sorts of blades for manufacture, sale and possession.

Nobody seems to be interpreting any D-ring knife guards as being the same as CA illegal brass knuckles.

Automotive companies will sell you non-California legal items all day long but you will still get in trouble if you put them on you vehicles and use them. Tannerite is illegal to mix together and use here in California but you sure as hell see stores selling them all the time.

[Marthor]

Automotive companies will sell you non-California legal items all day long but you will still get in trouble if you put them on you vehicles and use them. Tannerite is illegal to mix together and use here in California but you sure as hell see stores selling them all the time.

The brass knuckle law goes much further. Not only can you not use it, you can't sell it, make it or possess it either.

In your examples, it is not illegal for a store to sell those individual components and so the store is definately not breaking a law. In the case of D-ring knife handguards, if they were illegal, we've got stores, making, importing, selling and possessing each of which would be a felony for the store if it really was illegal.

[Marthor]

16470. As used in this part, "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death.

So, here's the legal definition of dirk or dagger includes a knife with a handguard.

This is relevant because now we know handguards are legal!

[Librarian]

So, here's the legal definition of dirk or dagger includes a knife with a handguard.

This is relevant because now we know handguards are legal!

It also includes a knife without a handguard.

And a 'dirk or dagger' is legal to buy, sell, own, use and possess - it's just illegal to conceal on your person.

[blazeaglory]

Maybe its only brass knuckles if there is a slot for each finger?

Its funny you bring this up because I never actually noticed how many knives/swords/machetes there actually are for sale in CA with hand guards until now!

Fantasy shops galore and renaissance fairs to start...lol

Side note: When my little bro was 15 he had a really crappy balisong from Tijuana for $3. I mean seriously that thing was as dull as a butter knife and made out of the crappiest chrome painted metal. The pins that held the thing together were so thin and loose. It was pathetic. Him and his friends got stopped and searched by police on Beach Blvd in HB and my brother caught a felony but was dropped and sealed/destroyed because he was a minor and finished all the requirement and when he turned 18 it was like it never existed. But it was a felony for that crappy cheap dull butterfly knife.

Im sure a cop could/would/might charge a person with knuckles for the knife in the OP, and let that person fight it out in the courts.

[Marthor]

Maybe

Im sure a cop could/would/might charge a person with knuckles for the knife in the OP, and let that person fight it out in the courts.

The law shouldn't be complex, arbitrary or subjective. IMO, the law should be simplified to "all knives are legal" except in a few restricted places where on-site armed security is provided in lieu.

[CPRAFAN]

If you are worried and unsure of what the law is, get a written legal opinion from a lawyer. If the legal opinion says that handguards are legal on a knife, then you are safe from criminal liability if you comply with the legal advice given.

[Librarian]

If you are worried and unsure of what the law is, get a written legal opinion from a lawyer. If the legal opinion says that handguards are legal on a knife, then you are safe from criminal liability if you comply with the legal advice given.

It would be nice if lawyers never made mistakes. But following competent legal advice that turns out in court to be wrong will not protect you from the penalties which would apply to your acts.

[JoshuaS]

More relevant would be a court case.

The very little we have about what constitutes a dirk or dagger is from Forrest (1967), afaik. And even that is vague (a butterknife is not a dirk or dagger, and generally any knife which has clear legitimate and utilitarian uses that is not especially designed for stabbing...so a rounded point steak knife would probably not be a dirk or dagger). As it is the law as written could be read as prohibiting me from carrying my fountain pen concealed...the nib is metal and sharp, I could stab you with it. The courts have applied some common sense over and above possible meanings of the words by themselves.


If there were similar precedent here, that would help. Heck some "tactical" gloves have hard knuckles and are sold in CA, so are motorcycle gloves....but those could be seen as afoul of this law too.