Beginner Long-Range Shooter

[American Muslim Gun Owner]

Hello Everyone,

I am currently putting together my first rifle for long range shooting, a Howa 1500 heavy barrel in .308.

Right now (and at least for the next one year), my personal long range shooting will be limited to two hundred yards or less on paper, and five hundred yards or less on steel. Once I feel I've mastered the fundamentals and have a good understanding of my rifle, I will start trying for longer distances. Locations will include Angeles Shooting Ranges, Burro Canyon, Rahaauges, and BLM land.

I will be using factory match ammo in 175 gr from Federal and Sig when starting out. Reloading will happen, but not right away.

I am new and on a budget, so I need some help with gear recommendations because I am afraid I will go overboard and overwhelm myself in the end.

Aside from a rifle that is properly setup optically, proper ammo, a cleaning kit and a notepad and pen, what else do I need?

Is a shooting bad / rest preferred over a bipod? Any particular one you recommend?

What kind of notes should I be taking when I am doing my shooting? Any particular device(s) or apps I should look into for the specific data?

Do you recommend any particular log book, or is it better to make my own?

What do you recommend for measuring groups? Am I ok with using a generic caliper from Amazon?

Is a spotting scope necessary when starting out at the distances that I am working with?

Any recommendations on a backpack and rifle case?

And whatever else you can recommend.

Thanks in advance!

[mrb865]

The "Long Range Shooting Handbook" by Ryan Cleckner.

[Thoughts]

I would rate a spotting scope as a necessity in order to check your shots and dial in your corrections, but your scope might be enough at 100 yards, depending on what you get. You could shot at shorter distances for a while to hold off on some spending.

Get a good bipod, IMO. I am not sure what kind of support you'd use otherwise that's cheaper and as useful. I use Atlas bipods. You'll also need a bag for the rear end of the gun. Lots of opinions there.

A shooting mat is handy. I use a CrossTac. This can wait if you are shooting at a range with a friendly surface.

I'd add a 12" ruler for computing your zero properly. It'll be fine for measuring groups, too. Calipers are okay for groups, too. Probably more precise, but I don't care, personally.

Get a ballistics app. I use Strelok Pro.

I use a Midway range bag to carry most equipment, and a standard rifle case for the gun. I have a drag bag, but have never needed it.

I use LucasOil gun oil and grease for lubrication, although there are lots of fine products.

There are lots of opinions on log books, too, but I don't have enough experience to recommend one.

[kcstott]

You will need a rear bag for sure.
front support could be as simple as a Harris 6-9 swivel bipod
As you get more experience you will start to figure out what you need and what you don't.

A log book?? well I wouldn't recommend one at this point and time. What I would recommend is just a note book and record Date, Time, Location, Temp, Altitude Density, Wind speed and direction, (average it) number of rounds fired, how well you think you did, and anything different, Did you try a new load, bullet, bipod, rest, scope, etc. Note every change you make to your weapon system and include how often you clean it and a total round count.

If you really want a log book I can send you two PDF's that you can print punch holes in and go to town.

you'll be surprised how valuable that data is.

Spotting scopes are nice spend your money wisely and plan for the future. that means also buying a good tripod. don't waste you money on a scope kit as the tripods included are junk.

Backpack?? how about the Kelty Map 3500, I've had one for 12 years and it hold up very well.

Gun Case?? Pelican if you fly, Boyt if you can afford it. Bald eagle if you want cheep and good but don't care about color.

Midway makes a nice shooting mat. big one and rolls up.

don't get caught up on the wizz bang gun oil/grease crap. 3 in 1 oil and wheel bearing grease works just fine. and it's dirt cheep. Gun oil is rebranded machine oil with a 300% mark up if not more. Gun grease is the same way

[smoothy8500]

Seeing that you will be going to ASR or Burro Cyn and probably shooting off the bench, a cheap front sandbag may be better than the bipod which can bounce or hop on a hard surface due to recoil.

The Midway competition mats are good and have a strip to secure the bipod when firing prone. On sale usually for $50 or so.

Spotting scopes, Konus has a good budget 20x60x80mm spotting scope, Kowa if you are buying a real one.

Initially you don't need a Kestrel for wind and weather data. The wind is limited at 100yds but will show it's influence at 200yds and beyond. The old school methods of estimating wind are fairly accurate. Most people overestimate actual windspeed unless they have a basic understanding. Here's a simple primer in reading wind and estimating basic windage corrections:

https://www.6mmbr.com/windreading.html

Legal disclaimer: I'm just a neophyte NRA Long-range competitor with a background in NRA service rifle. kcstott is more experienced and typically outshoots me by a good 10-15 points at the end of the day.

Take up kcstott on the logbook offer.

[bsumoba]

http://www.rifleshootingbynancy.com/index.html

Lots of good information on wind reading and when/if you ever got into slow fire shooting, this is one of the Bibles to get.

Here are two other ones that are very good reads if you want to get more into the accuracy/precision of shooting in general. These techniques spill into long range shooting, even though these guys are short range bench rest shooters.

https://www.amazon.com/Book-Rifle-Accuracy-Tony-Boyer/dp/0982678800/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=CjwKCAjw29vsBRAuEiwA9s-0B0n3_DysowUDaewrg4_yf5njvnr4grbh5FEa-q1bqOu10U-Y22Eh-BoCcQEQAvD_BwE&hvadid=241903462047&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9032007&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=17945670835770490008&hvtargid=aud-676677759524%3Akwd-305943936948&hydadcr=24665_10401006&keywords=tony+boyer&qid=1570207097&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Rifle-Accuracy/dp/0979252806/ref=pd_sbs_14_4/131-9351899-6265714?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0979252806&pd_rd_r=eb6210e0-5aa0-4543-87a9-d57e26aa373f&pd_rd_w=0Sc0o&pd_rd_wg=EWaIh&pf_rd_p=d66372fe-68a6-48a3-90ec-41d7f64212be&pf_rd_r=RV5YH5ND8R0K4GQQ9ZA8&psc=1&refRID=RV5YH5ND8R0K4GQQ9ZA8

[sigstroker]

Try to figure out what your end goal is also. PRS? F class? ELR like King of 2 mile? Or just banging steel for fun?

It won't be long before you'll start to want to get equipment geared towards the kind of shooting you ultimately want to do.

[broadside]

here are the pages I sourced my own datalog from

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7VGl1EJ9GXAZUtrMGZIdjdFcDg?usp=sharing

[smoothy8500]

here are the pages I sourced my own datalog from

Very nice! A lot of good data book pages.

[American Muslim Gun Owner]

Thank you all for the helpful replies.

The "Long Range Shooting Handbook" by Ryan Cleckner.

Thanks mrb, I just got that book recently and about half way through it. I will also take Cleckner's advice and keep it on me on my range trips.

I would rate a spotting scope as a necessity in order to check your shots and dial in your corrections, but your scope might be enough at 100 yards, depending on what you get. You could shot at shorter distances for a while to hold off on some spending.

Get a good bipod, IMO. I am not sure what kind of support you'd use otherwise that's cheaper and as useful. I use Atlas bipods. You'll also need a bag for the rear end of the gun. Lots of opinions there.

A shooting mat is handy. I use a CrossTac. This can wait if you are shooting at a range with a friendly surface.

I'd add a 12" ruler for computing your zero properly. It'll be fine for measuring groups, too. Calipers are okay for groups, too. Probably more precise, but I don't care, personally.

Get a ballistics app. I use Strelok Pro.

I use a Midway range bag to carry most equipment, and a standard rifle case for the gun. I have a drag bag, but have never needed it.

I use LucasOil gun oil and grease for lubrication, although there are lots of fine products.

There are lots of opinions on log books, too, but I don't have enough experience to recommend one.

Thank you for all the recommendations and tips, Thoughts.

The scope that I purchased is a Nikon Black in the 4-16 magnification. Based on the replies in this thread, I will see how well I can see with the scope itself before investing a in a good spotting scope. That is some pricey glass!

I'll start shopping around for a good rear bag, as well as good bipod for when I eventually start shooting prone. I might look for used stuff since I'm starting out just to keep the costs down.

Most of the ranges I'll be frequenting have shooting benches, so I may not need a mat right away. But I'll keep an eye out for a deal.

And I just downloaded the Strelok app and will start playing with it.

You will need a rear bag for sure.
front support could be as simple as a Harris 6-9 swivel bipod
As you get more experience you will start to figure out what you need and what you don't.

A log book?? well I wouldn't recommend one at this point and time. What I would recommend is just a note book and record Date, Time, Location, Temp, Altitude Density, Wind speed and direction, (average it) number of rounds fired, how well you think you did, and anything different, Did you try a new load, bullet, bipod, rest, scope, etc. Note every change you make to your weapon system and include how often you clean it and a total round count.

If you really want a log book I can send you two PDF's that you can print punch holes in and go to town.

you'll be surprised how valuable that data is.

Spotting scopes are nice spend your money wisely and plan for the future. that means also buying a good tripod. don't waste you money on a scope kit as the tripods included are junk.

Backpack?? how about the Kelty Map 3500, I've had one for 12 years and it hold up very well.

Gun Case?? Pelican if you fly, Boyt if you can afford it. Bald eagle if you want cheep and good but don't care about color.

Midway makes a nice shooting mat. big one and rolls up.

don't get caught up on the wizz bang gun oil/grease crap. 3 in 1 oil and wheel bearing grease works just fine. and it's dirt cheep. Gun oil is rebranded machine oil with a 300% mark up if not more. Gun grease is the same way

Thank you for the helpful recommendations and info, kcstott.

I'll make the rear bag a priority. Any brand recommendations are certainly welcome.

Thank you so much for the tips on data. Will a Kestrel provide most of that info? And yes, I will be very grateful for the log book pdfs, if you don't mind.

The spotting scope will be a later purchase. From the reading I've done, it looks like a good one will cost at least a Glock.

Thank for the recommendation on the Kelty Map. I was thrown off by the price at first, but it does have good reviews and seems well laid-out.

Seeing that you will be going to ASR or Burro Cyn and probably shooting off the bench, a cheap front sandbag may be better than the bipod which can bounce or hop on a hard surface due to recoil.

The Midway competition mats are good and have a strip to secure the bipod when firing prone. On sale usually for $50 or so.

Spotting scopes, Konus has a good budget 20x60x80mm spotting scope, Kowa if you are buying a real one.

Initially you don't need a Kestrel for wind and weather data. The wind is limited at 100yds but will show it's influence at 200yds and beyond. The old school methods of estimating wind are fairly accurate. Most people overestimate actual windspeed unless they have a basic understanding. Here's a simple primer in reading wind and estimating basic windage corrections:

https://www.6mmbr.com/windreading.html

Legal disclaimer: I'm just a neophyte NRA Long-range competitor with a background in NRA service rifle. kcstott is more experienced and typically outshoots me by a good 10-15 points at the end of the day.

Take up kcstott on the logbook offer.

Thanks for all the help so far, smoothy.

I see your point about the bipod bounce. I'll look for a sand bags, or try to make my own.

Thank you for the recommendations on the spotting scope and shooting mat. I've have across several recommendations for the Midway shooting mat.

I've printed out the article you linked. I'll be reading it a few times and try to be observant when outdoors to start training myself.

http://www.rifleshootingbynancy.com/index.html

Lots of good information on wind reading and when/if you ever got into slow fire shooting, this is one of the Bibles to get.

Here are two other ones that are very good reads if you want to get more into the accuracy/precision of shooting in general. These techniques spill into long range shooting, even though these guys are short range bench rest shooters.

https://www.amazon.com/Book-Rifle-Accuracy-Tony-Boyer/dp/0982678800/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=CjwKCAjw29vsBRAuEiwA9s-0B0n3_DysowUDaewrg4_yf5njvnr4grbh5FEa-q1bqOu10U-Y22Eh-BoCcQEQAvD_BwE&hvadid=241903462047&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9032007&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=17945670835770490008&hvtargid=aud-676677759524%3Akwd-305943936948&hydadcr=24665_10401006&keywords=tony+boyer&qid=1570207097&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Rifle...ND8R0K4GQQ9ZA8

Thanks for those recommendations, bsumoba.

I've got more time for reading than shooting right now, so these books will be great. I found a used copy of Extreme Rifle Accuracy and ordered it immediately. The other two will be coming home soon.

Try to figure out what your end goal is also. PRS? F class? ELR like King of 2 mile? Or just banging steel for fun?

It won't be long before you'll start to want to get equipment geared towards the kind of shooting you ultimately want to do.

Honestly, I'm not sure what my end goal. But if I had to pick one today, it would be hitting steel out to a thousand yards or so. I am afraid I will get bit by the tiny groupings bug, and then go broke lol!

here are the pages I sourced my own datalog from

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...Dg?usp=sharing

Thanks broadside! These are awesome! I'll be downloading them all.

[Bicky]

If you decide on a Harris bipod, get the SBRM. It has notched legs and is able to cant. Also, replace the cant tension knob with a podlock. Makes it much easier to use. Chrono can wait, you can back into velocity using Strelok. I like the Str8laced rear bag.

[kcstott]

Thank you all for the helpful replies.









Thank you for the helpful recommendations and info, kcstott.

I'll make the rear bag a priority. Any brand recommendations are certainly welcome.

Thank you so much for the tips on data. Will a Kestrel provide most of that info? And yes, I will be very grateful for the log book pdfs, if you don't mind.

The spotting scope will be a later purchase. From the reading I've done, it looks like a good one will cost at least a Glock.

Thank for the recommendation on the Kelty Map. I was thrown off by the price at first, but it does have good reviews and seems well laid-out.

the most expensive Kestral will have Altitude density. But at $500 a free or nearly free Iphone or android app will do the same. There is one called density altitude + for the iphone I think it's free or like $5. It don't need to be that close you just need to know what 1K foot level you are on, no need for a number as close as say 1234 feet. The bullet isn't that sensitive to pressure. Just round it off the the nearest 1K and call it good. I've seen guys argue over 500 feet on our firing line. it's funny then you politely tell them it don't matter and they continue to argue. I then say check you data with a manually entered AD number look at your drop then change the AD by 500 feet and see what you get. It's funny to see the light bulbs go off.

for 90% of shooters
Don't worry about temp till it changes by more than 10 degrees
Don't worry about altitude until you have 1000 feet of change (density or actual location)
Don't worry about humidity at all unless the swing is from zero to 100% or 100% to zero there is little effect.

99% of the problems with the gun are fix behind the gun not on it. As in you are the cause of 99% of the issues. we all are but human nature makes us think it can't be use it must be the load or gun or the wind. No sometimes you just can't put the puzzle together and you shoot like crap.

[American Muslim Gun Owner]

If you decide on a Harris bipod, get the SBRM. It has notched legs and is able to cant. Also, replace the cant tension knob with a podlock. Makes it much easier to use. Chrono can wait, you can back into velocity using Strelok. I like the Str8laced rear bag.

Thanks Bicky, I have added the Harris bipod as well as the Str8laced shooting bag to my shopping list and downloaded the Strelok app.

the most expensive Kestral will have Altitude density. But at $500 a free or nearly free Iphone or android app will do the same. There is one called density altitude + for the iphone I think it's free or like $5. It don't need to be that close you just need to know what 1K foot level you are on, no need for a number as close as say 1234 feet. The bullet isn't that sensitive to pressure. Just round it off the the nearest 1K and call it good. I've seen guys argue over 500 feet on our firing line. it's funny then you politely tell them it don't matter and they continue to argue. I then say check you data with a manually entered AD number look at your drop then change the AD by 500 feet and see what you get. It's funny to see the light bulbs go off.

for 90% of shooters
Don't worry about temp till it changes by more than 10 degrees
Don't worry about altitude until you have 1000 feet of change (density or actual location)
Don't worry about humidity at all unless the swing is from zero to 100% or 100% to zero there is little effect.

99% of the problems with the gun are fix behind the gun not on it. As in you are the cause of 99% of the issues. we all are but human nature makes us think it can't be use it must be the load or gun or the wind. No sometimes you just can't put the puzzle together and you shoot like crap.

Thanks kcstott for the continued help. At this point, I have decided to dedicate an older phone I've got sitting around to this hobby. I've already got the Strelok app and I'll start looking for the app you've described. Maybe even download a few ebooks and document my range trips with the camera. Looks like there are a couple of interesting log book apps as well for both Androids and iPhones.

I very much appreciate the anecdote about the guys arguing; I suffer from a lot of OCD so I can certainly see myself being that guy who is overthinking it lol!

The more I learn, the more I realize how much it will be me who is going to be the main source of shooting issues. I'm going to continue relying on my .22 rifles to make sure my fundamentals remain the main focus.

[smoothy8500]

I'm going to continue relying on my .22 rifles to make sure my fundamentals remain the main focus.

A .22LR at 100-150yds can be a very effective substitute for 600yd wind-reading. If you have a good .22 and use quality target velocity ammunition, you can observe and record how the wind influences a projectile. You will start seeing the 2 or 3MOA shift in impact associated with changes in velocity or direction.

[American Muslim Gun Owner]

A .22LR at 100-150yds can be a very effective substitute for 600yd wind-reading. If you have a good .22 and use quality target velocity ammunition, you can observe and record how the wind influences a projectile. You will start seeing the 2 or 3MOA shift in impact associated with changes in velocity or direction.

Good advice smoothy. Quality 22 ammo is certainly cheaper than match grade 308.

Right now, I have a Marlin 795 and a Ruger 10/22 in my collection that I play around with. I have been debating investing in a bolt-action like a Marlin XT-22 or a Ruger American rimfire with a good scope for long distance. If the price drops low enough, I may just pick up another Nikon to match the one for the Howa.

I feel like I missed the boat on stocking up on quality subsonic .22 ammo before the whole ammo permit thing kicked in. I'm going to look around to see what is available at the local gun shops. Otherwise, I'll try my luck online.