Technical aspects of a 5000 yard shot

[wpod]

You forgot to calculate for coriolis effect of the earths spin. This will be dependent on the direction you're shooting in.

This

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[focus]

Seriously, if accuracy matters in the URSA, they ought to have something more than "Anecdotal" evidence. Documentation matters.

The accuracy is documented using gong hits. Groups are used to measure precision. So, it is the group size that is anecdotal.

Cheers,

[Hoffer]

This

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Original post

"Going thru some numbers on a theoretical rifle at 5000 yards using AB app"

AB app automatically applies all corrections

[bridgeport]

The accuracy is documented using gong hits. Groups are used to measure precision. So, it is the group size that is anecdotal.

Cheers,

I checked out the URSA website, very interesting. In the Gallery section were several pictures of target plates, with multiple strikes evident, however little that would denote one shot from another or shooter from another, or how many rounds were hits Vs misses etc. It would be interesting to see some actual individual targets with rings to get a better sense of what the actual level of accuracy is being achieved. If anybody here has a link/s to some more information on this, I would be interested in seeing it. Bottom line is though, it is very nice to see interested shooters making the effort (and I'm sure it is a lot of work) to get the ball rolling on this.

[Hoffer]

In URSA its a hit or its not. There is a light that triggers when hit. Very reliable

[focus]

If anybody here has a link/s to some more information on this, I would be interested in seeing it.

It would take too much time to change paper targets. This is what a URSA string is like. That particular string wasn't good enough for a win

https://youtu.be/kfxxL48M5GM

Cheers,

[bridgeport]

Why not put up a plate (or paper) with some rings painted on it to represent X, 10, 9, 8, and use something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAnyljKPVgo

Until you have a scorable target system, a guy is just slinging lead at a plate. I have seen many a guy brag on his hits on a 1000 yard plate, but when you put up a 1000 yard F-class target, the groups are terrible. Then look at the published results of the top F-class shooters at 1k, and you will see why it is so important to have markers to measure actual performance by.

[Hoffer]

In ELR a hit is a hit and a miss is a miss.

I guess you can call the scoring by hits at a certain distance

1000 yard F class you might get 20ft of elevation over flat terrain with flight time of 1.5 seconds

Its a whole different animal when your bullet is travelling 600 ft in the air for 4-5 seconds over varying topography for 2000 yards. Rules change for this type of distance.

URSA runs 10 shot strings with good shooters getting at least 5 out of 10 at 2000 yards minimum.

[bridgeport]

In ELR a hit is a hit and a miss is a miss.
Its a whole different animal when your bullet is travelling 600 ft in the air for 4-5 seconds over varying topography for 2000 yards. Rules change for this type of distance.

I have a, how shall I put this, fair bit of experience shooting at distances over 1K in the field, on what most would agree are relatively small targets, and I can assure you that the rules of accuracy do not change for you or me regardless, however this is a common putdown to those who do practice on surveyed ranges and can make the grade. In actuality, my experience has shown that the better one can shoot in proven arena, the better they shoot in open field, period. As I noted before, hits on a plate, and misses off the plate that can only be identified by rudimentary terms, will make for a much longer road, to deriving something amounting to repeatable groups and accuracy which can be banked on when called for. If in practice you are not able to produce repeatable groups, how can you ever hope to improve in your meets/ matches? Hey, if all you want to do is get together in the woods and sling some lead at 2K, have at it, I support that, just not my cup of tea. Whatever the distance, it is always of benefit to have more data, more dope, and more practice. Then again, excuses for lack thereof, do abound.

[URSA Facilitator]

Bridgeport - seems you are missing the intent of URSA shooting, to move the shooters to further and further distances based on accomplishments at nearer distances. If a shooter scores 4 in 10 they move to the next distance (about 500+ yards further down range).

In 30+ events, in 2 1/2 years, the best shooting at a URSA event has been 7 in 10 on a 37" round plate at 2054 yards. And only two shooters have "graduated" to Novice level during that time (5 targets, each with 5 in 10 or better). One of those two shooters averaged 6 in 10 for those 5 targets and the other 5.2 in 10. Those who think this is simple stuff really need to come out to one of our events and show us how its done. We have two events this month on the 19th (one in NorCal and one in SoCal). How about stopping by. I'm the contact for SoCal and Lynn is the contact for NorCal.

More info and stats are on our website - www.unlimitedrange.org

[bridgeport]

URSA, Thank you, I get what you are saying, and as noted I support what you are doing and the work that goes into it. my questions regarding the pursuit, as well as my comments on shooting in general or as a response to misconceptions about "what a bullet does, etc." are not meant to disparage, in fact just the opposite, to encourage a better understanding of what it actually means to shoot for accuracy whatever the distance. That being said, my question to you would be: is there not some expectation for improvement amongst the shooters in the matches, and if so, how do you hope to foster improvement without setting parameters that can show a shooter how to improve? I don't think just shooting a long range match (F class included) does this alone, but using tools such as an F-class target at 1K with a half MOA x ring and MOA 10ring and larger areas to show where shots have gone astray go a long way to helping put the shots where the shooter intends for them to go. In a perfect world, what would be your expectation that the best shooter with the best equipment might be capable of? Half MOA at 2K would be something like 10+ inches, with a 20" 10 ring etc. Anyhow this is just me thinking. -B

[Apollo]

In a perfect world, what would be your expectation that the best shooter with the best equipment might be capable of? Half MOA at 2K would be something like 10+ inches, with a 20" 10 ring etc. Anyhow this is just me thinking. -B

Let me guess, your rifle shoots .5 MOA at any distance... if you do your part.

I get the feeling that you've done a lot of reading but not a lot of practice at extended long ranges, which is cool. That's what the long range game is all about, trying new things, seeing what works and what doesn't. It all starts out with an idea. All skill levels are welcome to come and shoot.

Heck, my first time at an URSA event I had never shot beyond 400 yards and I was woefully undergunned. But they helped me get on target and I ended up getting my first hit. It felt amazing.

I'm all for getting more data, but the thing you don't seem to understand is that when you start reaching out really far, small factors like ES become huge. Small wind shifts are make or break. Especially when an infrequent updraught can push your bullet over the top of the target.

A Yes/No scoring system is more than good enough for what we do. While it might be nice to know that our bullet hit slightly high on the target, finding out why it did so would require crunching a ton of data from how fast it was going to real time wind reads along the course for the duration of the shot.

At those distances it's a probability game and currently, that probability hit box is bigger than the target.

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[Hoffer]

URSA, Thank you, I get what you are saying, and as noted I support what you are doing and the work that goes into it. my questions regarding the pursuit, as well as my comments on shooting in general or as a response to misconceptions about "what a bullet does, etc." are not meant to disparage, in fact just the opposite, to encourage a better understanding of what it actually means to shoot for accuracy whatever the distance. That being said, my question to you would be: is there not some expectation for improvement amongst the shooters in the matches, and if so, how do you hope to foster improvement without setting parameters that can show a shooter how to improve? I don't think just shooting a long range match (F class included) does this alone, but using tools such as an F-class target at 1K with a half MOA x ring and MOA 10ring and larger areas to show where shots have gone astray go a long way to helping put the shots where the shooter intends for them to go. In a perfect world, what would be your expectation that the best shooter with the best equipment might be capable of? Half MOA at 2K would be something like 10+ inches, with a 20" 10 ring etc. Anyhow this is just me thinking. -B

I would say 1 moa 5 shot group at 2000 yards would be stunning. No one ever in the KO2M has done that with a 3 shot group and The top 10 are probably much better that the URSA participants.
Read the original post and work backwards in yardage