80% build question...

[badicedog]

If you have a billet 80% lower that is not quite 80% (according to the shop that is supervising your CNC build). Are there any legal issues with that? Such as manufacturing without an 07/02FFL? I don't think that applies to home built firearms that will not be sold just for personal use right? The issue is the lower does not have the take down pins pre-drilled. Smells like FUD to me but just want to make sure. Thanks in advance guys...

[bill_k_lopez]

I'm trying to understand your question.

If you have an 80% that is actually 75% (i.e. MORE work needs to be done to complete it) why would there be a problem??

The issue is when the lower has LESS than 20% work to be completed.

[CSACANNONEER]

First, I've gotta say that this whole thing about using CNC machines that someone else has programmed and helps you set up gives us honest homebuilders a bad name. Why not just use an old Bridgeport and actually have some pride in really doing it yourself?

That said, you can start with a block of metal and build a receiver from scratch for your own personal use. You don't have to start with an 80% (which there is no exact legal definition of anyways) receiver that you purchased. Hell, you can even just cut up a bunch of sheet metal and bolt it together to make a receiver. You sure don't need any type of FFL to build a legal title one firearm for your own personal use. Now, dump the shop and learn how to do it yourself instead of having a computer and a set up guy do it all for you. You can even machine a lower on a drill press or, if you're really carefull, with nothing more than a dremel.

[badicedog]

I've gone the home build route on my first build. Just FYI...

This is the lower in question...

after milling it(The old fashioned way)

My oops, but Hell it gives it character so I tell myself... lol


The reason I was asking this is because this shop was giving me such a hard time.

[CSACANNONEER]

I've gone the home build route on my first build. Just FYI...

Then I have to assume that you've done enough research about home builds to answer your own question. Or, did you just follow what others had posted without actually reading and understanding the laws for yourself BEFORE you ever started your first home build?

[badicedog]

I understand the laws 100%. I am no one's follower if that's what you are implying. I thought I may have missed something, that is all.

[vw69turbobug]

your question is very unclear.in simple terms there is no such thing as 80% in the atf eyes it either a firearm or not. so for a ar lower to not be considered a firearm it must not have the fcg and fcg pins drilled out anything else left out is for safe measure since the atf can change there mind anytime they want

[badicedog]

your question is very unclear.in simple terms there is no such thing as 80% in the atf eyes it either a firearm or not. so for a ar lower to not be considered a firearm it must not have the fcg and fcg pins drilled out anything else left out is for safe measure since the atf can change there mind anytime they want

Thanks for clearing that up. I figured the shop owner can make up his own rules. I just need to find another shop. The lower is a clone of a HK 416 so I'm stuck with it being less then 80%. Thanks for all the input, I greatly appreciate it.

[Gunsmith Dan]

Well to be honest first off this is from the BATF&E and I have been up the ladder for this.

I wanted to start a DIY shop that you could rent CNC machines like you rent copy machines in FedEx Kinkos.

I was shot down and they explained that unless you rent the machines for the customers to take home with them to do the work it was considered manufacturing. So since no one gonna rent a 2500 lb CNC mill to take home I was out of luck (guess I could rent small drill presses and jigs though) and could not get anyone in the BATF&E to tell me differently.

I know other places advertise that the BATF&E agents inspected them and allowed CNC machining but I have not been able to get anyone in San Diego County to ok it. I wish I knew their secret but i am sure they will not share with a potential competitor.


NOW as to the OP's question I believe he meant his lower was maybe milled in a area that it not suppose to be milled for a "80%" (yes we all know this is not a legal term used by the BATF&E but it is alot shorter than typing out the entire U.S. code and definition).

MY advice is this:

ALL persons/groups that setup a BUSINESS TO SELL items that are advertised to be able to be machined into a firearm frame/receiver MUST submit samples to the BATF&E to be classified as a "80%" or lower percent before they can legally sell them. If in doubt ask the manufacturer for a copy of the approval letter from the BATF&E that way you know it is legit.