Want to build a muzzle loader from scratch.

[ziconceo]

Hello everyone! I'm considering building a muzzle loader from scratch and id like to know the laws on building one. Do I have to register it? Where is it legal to shoot it? (besides the shooting range) what is it considered because I'm pretty sure its not considered a firearm as long as the barrel is smooth. Just a wood stock, a barrel, a glow plug, batteries, and a switch.

[ziconceo]

anyone know that laws at all?

[GMANtt]

Might be mistaken but a muzzle loader is seen as a primitive weapon is it not? I believe you can make one if you want to. I know you can make flintlocks.

[ziconceo]

I'm pretty sure its not considered a firearm at all, just wanted to be 100% sure..

[SilentPea]

100% IS A FIREARM, and is subject to all applicable laws about firearms and concealment, discharge, etc. If you have powder and ball in the barrel (not sure about the necessity of the cap) it can considered loaded firearm.

The only time it isn't treated as a firearm is for the purposes of purchasing/transferring it -- still have to be 18 to buy, just doesn't have to go through a dealer, can ship directly to you.

[ThePatriot]

100% IS A FIREARM, and is subject to all applicable laws about firearms and concealment, discharge, etc. If you have powder and ball in the barrel (not sure about the necessity of the cap) it can considered loaded firearm.

The only time it isn't treated as a firearm is for the purposes of purchasing/transferring it -- still have to be 18 to buy, just doesn't have to go through a dealer, can ship directly to you.

100% WRONG - black powder guns are not firearms and are not subject to any controls. You can walk into any store and buy one, you can order them through the mail, you can make them. I have lots of them, all through the mail. Have fun making one and ignore this guy's advice. One point though, black powder guns sold as kits are usually composed of parts not good enough to be assembled at the factory and can be a huge headache.

[ThePatriot]

Also, rifling makes no difference, no muzzle loading black powder gun is a firearm.

[kcstott]

100% WRONG - black powder guns are not firearms and are not subject to any controls. You can walk into any store and buy one, you can order them through the mail, you can make them. I have lots of them, all through the mail. Have fun making one and ignore this guy's advice. One point though, black powder guns sold as kits are usually composed of parts not good enough to be assembled at the factory and can be a huge headache.

Incorrect as well.
While there is no immediate control at the Point of sale. There are laws on possession, Transportation, loaded vs unloaded. Possession by a prohibited person.

If a Muzzle loader is not a firearm Shoot one off in the backyard of a city home, Walk around a school yard with one, Try to get on a plane with a muzzleloading pistol and see what happens.
There are many differing type of "firearms" some regulated and some not so much or at all. But all of them are classified as a dangerous weapon and that where they get ya.

They are firearms just very much unregulated.
From the CA DOJ


Then we have the exceptions


And the loaded firearm section with a note on Muzzle loaders.
There is case law that elaborates on the intent of the "loaded Firearm law" and it basically says that the ammo can be attached to any part of the weapon so long as there is no cartridge in the chamber based on the intent of the law when referring to a muzzle loader. Thank you Enthusiast for the enlightenment on that topic.

The problem with building one from scratch is you may be building a zip gun and not know it. Zip gun law is very vague and broad.

[SilentPea]

ThePatriot I direct you to the CGF wiki on antique firearms: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Antique_Firearms

California law is less forgiving; while transfer may be made without using an FFL, 'antique firearms' ARE firearms for purposes of transfer to and possession by felons, and for purposes of carry and possession by persons who are not disabled by law.

(my emphasis)

I don't have the time or the will to sit down and research all the legal bits and pieces to prove my poin: my advice (I am not a lawyer, etc etc) is you're fine to make a muzzleloader all you want, but it still is considered a firearm/weapon for the purposes of almost every law except the requirement for an FFL for purchase/transfer.

ziconceo you should do a bit a research and come to your own conclusion. Many similar questions have been covered on this topic in the 2A forum a bit up the page.

[EDIT] looks like KCSTOTT has it covered pretty well too.

[Mikeb]

A glow plug?

[kcstott]

A glow plug?

Electronic ignition

[Spiggy]

electronic trigger mechanism... like a detonator

We'll need librarian's clarification as I was under the working assumption that even a flipflop is a firearm in some cities.

[ThePatriot]

Incorrect as well.
While there is no immediate control at the Point of sale. There are laws on possession, Transportation, loaded vs unloaded. Possession by a prohibited person.

If a Muzzle loader is not a firearm Shoot one off in the backyard of a city home, Walk around a school yard with one, Try to get on a plane with a muzzleloading pistol and see what happens.
There are many differing type of "firearms" some regulated and some not so much or at all. But all of them are classified as a dangerous weapon and that where they get ya.

They are firearms just very much unregulated.
From the CA DOJ


Then we have the exceptions


And the loaded firearm section with a note on Muzzle loaders.
There is case law that elaborates on the intent of the "loaded Firearm law" and it basically says that the ammo can be attached to any part of the weapon so long as there is no cartridge in the chamber based on the intent of the law when referring to a muzzle loader. Thank you Enthusiast for the enlightenment on that topic.

The problem with building one from scratch is you may be building a zip gun and not know it. Zip gun law is very vague and broad.

Fair enough, however I have been building, shooting and reenacting with black powder guns for years, including carrying them at state and federal parks with no issues, ever. The question at hand involved the legality of building one, for which there is no issue whatsoever. Now, if this individual is contemplating building something that does not constitute a rep;lica then, yes he might be playing with fire.

[ziconceo]

wow! thanks for all the info guys! so does it matter what type of gunpowder i use? i have some pyrodex laying around but i also have imr 3130 as well. does it matter legally? also, since my gun will use a glow plug does it count? "A muzzle-loading firearm is deemed loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge AND ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder. " My "gun" wont use caps or primers...have i found a loop hole?

[SilentPea]

Doesn't matter what type of gunpowder you use in legal terms, the feature that makes your plan fall into the "antique firearm" category is the muzzle loading (and consequently the non-cartridge ammunition).

If the glow plug is a permanently installed device, then it would LIKELY only be "loaded" when the battery pack is electrically connected with only a switch/trigger preventing it from firing. To my knowledge this particular method of ignition has not been covered before, so there is also the decent chance that just having the glow plug installed (with no batteries) would be considered 'primed'.