Psl barrel

[Holescreek]

If I'm destined to build a PSL with a "standard" twist a fellow couldn't go wrong between the three of them, Shilen, Krieger, and Lothar-Walther.

L-W's blank is at 1:9.4" which makes it least desirable of the three (to me).

Krieger has a statement on their web page that says "Current estimated delivery times are below: .22-.30 cal blanks: 22 weeks Over .30 cal blanks: 24 weeks" which when added to their $340 price tells me I don't want one.

Shilen lists their Chrome Moly Match grade blanks at $165, which makes it the most economical and a smidgen longer in the twist.

[Richard Erichsen]

If I'm destined to build a PSL with a "standard" twist a fellow couldn't go wrong between the three of them, Shilen, Krieger, and Lothar-Walther.

L-W's blank is at 1:9.4" which makes it least desirable of the three (to me).

Krieger has a statement on their web page that says "Current estimated delivery times are below: .22-.30 cal blanks: 22 weeks Over .30 cal blanks: 24 weeks" which when added to their $340 price tells me I don't want one.

Shilen lists their Chrome Moly Match grade blanks at $165, which makes it the most economical and a smidgen longer in the twist.

If you are willing to compromise on the twist rates, then yeah, Shilen was the cheapest of them so far.

UPDATE: There is a caveat I forgot about with Shilen. The best barrels are "select/match" and that doubles the price and adds several weeks to delivery. Right as I was reviewing the website I got this gem in my email:

"I offer a 308 caliber in a 12 twist no 12.5
Unturned Blank:
Chrome-moly $165.00 3-5 weeks
Stainless $248.00 3-5 weeks
Stainless Select/Match $323.00 6-8 weeks
Lead time is for most calibers
Plus shipping"

So, while chrome-moly is $165 and stainless is $248, the true match quality stuff is a lot more and takes a few months before you get your barrel based on how they must be batching their runs. Rather than $165 or $248, it looks like the "really good" barrels in 1:10" are closer to Krieger pricing, just with a quicker turnaround time at 1.5 to 2 months.

R

[Richard Erichsen]

No, a Mosin barrel wouldn't meet MY needs because I want to build a non-standard heavy barreled rifle with an adjustable gas system. But for anyone just wanting a shooter, the MN barrel works fine.

I bought an "excellent condition" MN barrel from buymilsurp.com with the intent of turning it into a PSL barrel just in case my search for a blank fell through. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective) the barrel came with about half a receiver attached. I'm too much of a scrounge to trash the receiver section getting it off (since I might be able to use it later) so now have to rig up some tooling to remove it without damaging either part. That puts the project even further down the list.

You can see from the pictures of a turned MN barrel what had to be done. It looks like the hardest part is cutting the extractor groove which requires some somewhat expensive tooling to do it like the factory (a dividing head on a mill), but in reality could be done with a dremel tool and some patience.

http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=31620.0

I may just have to "settle" for a 1:10 twist blank to get what I want.

The list includes the following:

Lilja: 1:10" 4 groove only
Krieger: 1:10"
Shilen: 1:10"
Pac Nor: 1:10"

That's not a bad list I suppose. There had to be some justification for why they arrived upon that specific twist to the exclusion of anything else, though just getting it down to one rate of twist for a low volume product might have been their primary motivation. At least now you can find product in stock.

Bullet lucked out on his barrel find. I've seen my share of Mosin's in person and many had pitted bores and chambers and muzzles that needed some work to restore them. If you scored a good one, good luck getting that receiver stub off after umpty decades corroded shut!

R

[Holescreek]

The fact that L-W lists the same blank (1:9.5) for tokarev, 7.62x39, and x54r doesn't give me any warm fuzzies about potential accuracy. I'm starting to think that darn MN pencil barrel is a pretty good deal. I will likely shelve the idea until something better comes along and work on the M-N barrel as time permits.

[Richard Erichsen]

The fact that L-W lists the same blank (1:9.5) for tokarev, 7.62x39, and x54r doesn't give me any warm fuzzies about potential accuracy. I'm starting to think that darn MN pencil barrel is a pretty good deal. I will likely shelve the idea until something better comes along and work on the M-N barrel as time permits.

You'd think LW would be worried about a spoiled reputation using the exact same twist for all of those calibers (given how much spread there is in velocity and projectile length, shameful). I suppose they figure if you are using Russian milsurp ball ammo, maybe you won't notice.

I found two 7.62x54r barrels on ebay, one for around $70 with shipping, the other closer to $280 with shipping that was beefier but probably more than I myself would spend for a milsurp barrel that shows some wear.

Did you ever get a response from Green Mountain or any of the "decent" barrel producers that my not be so stratospheric?

R

[Holescreek]

Did you ever get a response from Green Mountain or any of the "decent" barrel producers that my not be so stratospheric?

Green Mountain doesn't seem to be what I'd call "interested" based on the response (or lack of) I've had. I really expected they'd be all over this given it's an AK style rifle and they could likely sell all they could produce. They could really clean up (money wise) on the lathe work by turning finished barrels since there just aren't any to be had. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a 1:12" (ish) blank but won't hold me breath.

[Richard Erichsen]

Green Mountain doesn't seem to be what I'd call "interested" based on the response (or lack of) I've had. I really expected they'd be all over this given it's an AK style rifle and they could likely sell all they could produce. They could really clean up (money wise) on the lathe work by turning finished barrels since there just aren't any to be had. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a 1:12" (ish) blank but won't hold me breath.

Sorry Mike.

I figure until GM starts making blanks in the desired twist, you probably won't be seeing any finished barrels featuring that twist either.

R

[nick]

You will probably want to keep the gas port on the larger side and use an adjustable gas block to adjust the gas cycling the bolt down for heavy ball. A higher spring rate recoil spring (custom made spring from a spring shop, increased wire diameter, look up "compression springs" and take a micrometer to a PSL spring and go up a small increment, say .008"-.010" at a time) and perhaps even receiver reinforcement around front and rear trunnions might also be prudent. It's been done, but details on how long the rifles last firing only heavy ball is for want.

PSL Recoil Spring Specs (taken from two sources on AK Files):

* PSL recoil spring is 20" free length
* Approximate spring rate of 12.5-13.1 lbs.
* Outer diameter 7/16"
* Inner diameter 3/8"
* # of coils 112 over the 20" length
* Wire size measures approximately .050"

If you wanted to beef up the spring, a .060" spring with the same coil count and coil diameter should do the trick.

R

I didn't know the adjustable gas blocks existed for PSL, but looks like they do. Plugging the gas block is still cheaper and easier though, or so it seems.

Pity Wolff doesn't make extra power PSL recoil springs...

[nick]

The list includes the following:

Lilja: 1:10" 4 groove only
Krieger: 1:10"
Shilen: 1:10"
Pac Nor: 1:10"

That's not a bad list I suppose. There had to be some justification for why they arrived upon that specific twist to the exclusion of anything else, though just getting it down to one rate of twist for a low volume product might have been their primary motivation. At least now you can find product in stock.

Bullet lucked out on his barrel find. I've seen my share of Mosin's in person and many had pitted bores and chambers and muzzles that needed some work to restore them. If you scored a good one, good luck getting that receiver stub off after umpty decades corroded shut!

R

And Krieger is willing to do 12.5 twist.

[Richard Erichsen]

And Krieger is willing to do 12.5 twist.

All the single-point cut rifling folks can do a custom twist. It's a matter of $360 (with shipping) and 6 months of waiting around until at last it arrives and you forgot why you bought it.

UPDATE: Bartlein (Frank) responded that it will cost about $410 shipped for a custom twist and require a month or two. They are among the most expensive, but if you are in a hurry, they are one of the match-grade options available.

Figure $850 or so if you are gunsmith dependent before you get your custom heavy-barrel chambered, profiled, threaded and your gas block, front sight base and HG retainers modified for the barrel, then populated and headspaced.

R

[Richard Erichsen]

I didn't know the adjustable gas blocks existed for PSL, but looks like they do. Plugging the gas block is still cheaper and easier though, or so it seems.

An adjustable gas block is the only way you are going to be able to dial in the gas for a specific load and allow you to shoot light, medium and heavy loads through it without too much trouble.

Pity Wolff doesn't make extra power PSL recoil springs...

Not enough of a market. It's just as well. They charge an arm and a leg for ordinary compression springs. Most spring shops can make you a spring with similar qualities for 50% less. Use the figures I listed above, compare them to the dimensions you record for the spring that came with your kit and have at it. I've used the Lee Spring Company in NY, but many exist. Even McMaster Carr is an option if the wire diameter is in stock.

R

[BanG_Bang]

sorry everyone. im a bit slow. but why in gods good earth are PSL barrels no available? if there are kits surely the ruskies would have sometype of surplus barrels laying around. can someone please fill my head with info as to why there is a shortage with PSL barrels

[Jayruta]

Because these kits are comming in with perfectly good barrels cut due to stupid import laws. So no surplus barrels there. Also the psl is still used. So military is keeping them. This thread us for people looking for barrels and for people who want to improve the performance by upgrading to a thicker barrel than the standard pencil barrels

[ott1]

I figured Krieger could do it, but am unsurprised at the lead time. Price and cost is about average for these sorts of custom jobs.

R

Their lead times are a bit over-conservative. I got my custom barrel 2 months ahead of their estimate.

[nick]

sorry everyone. im a bit slow. but why in gods good earth are PSL barrels no available? if there are kits surely the ruskies would have sometype of surplus barrels laying around. can someone please fill my head with info as to why there is a shortage with PSL barrels

I'm quite sure the Ruskies don't have any PSL barrels laying around, but Romanians might. However, they still use them, as the poster above mentioned. And yeah, blame the stupid laws, namely the 2005 executive order banning the importation of barrels with the kits for "non-sporting" rifles.