Experimental Muzzle Brake

[Builder]

After reading the article http://www.rvbprecision.com/articles...-muzzle-brakes

[Builder]

[leelaw]

Looks very similar to silencer designs.

Give us a range report on the effectiveness of it as a brake.

[AJAX22]

It looks neat, but be carefull, Silencer laws are particularly strict.

[wildcard]

Looks very similar to silencer designs.

Give us a range report on the effectiveness of it as a brake.

That's what I was thinking except he would have to add significantly more baffles, then extend and enlarge the overall unit to allow for more expansion. Should be safe in it's current size as to not have any silencing properties especially after it gets ported. In it's current form, it would at most serve as a flash hider that directs sound forward.

[Ak47owner]

I trave to my buddies house in a free state that allows silencers, and from a first hand expierence, that looks like a device that will dampen the sound of a firearm. The reason i say that is because looking down into the hole they look the same.

Not trying to be a Nazi, just trying to help you out.

[Fjold]

Once you drill the holes for the gas vents it should be fine. Make sure you post after you shoot it.

[monkey]

Neat design, but from experience I can tell you that you are drifting dangerously close to - if not already into - the National Firearms Act.

18 U.S.C. sec. 921(a)(24) "The term 'firearm silencer' or
'firearm muffler' means any device for silencing, muffling, or
diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any
combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for
use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm
muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or
fabrication."

As can be seen this covers improvised sound suppressors, and component parts of a sound suppressor. There is no threshold level of sound reduction for something to fall under this definition. ATF used to require the device "appreciably" lower the sound (see Revenue Ruling 57-38). Now the working definition seems to be anything that traps gas from the muzzle of the gun, or from porting of the barrel, is a sound suppressor. In general recoil compensators and flash hiders do not fall under this definition, but some designs could fall into the category. As with any borderline device the thing to do is to get a written opinion from the Technology Branch of ATF. You're borrowing from similar designs like the Bulgarian Krink and Noveske KX3, but these designs have already been approved as "flash suppressors" by ATF Tech Branch.

You have an enclosed design with baffles. You should proceed very carefully.

[Builder]

Neat design, but from experience I can tell you that <snip>

Ok, then from your experience, just how much sound suppression would this 1.465" of muzzle brake cause once the holes are drilled?
Thanks,
Builder

[monkey]

Ok, then from your experience, just how much sound suppression would this 1.465" of muzzle brake cause once the holes are drilled?
Thanks,
Builder

I'm really not trying to be a smart-***, but from experience, I see suppressor parts, not muzzle brake parts. And so can anyone from DOJ or ATF with the photos you've posted. That's my point.

Even if the unit as a whole does not meet "suppressor" due to sound suppression qualities, which is a maybe/maybe not at this point, they can still get you on the individual parts you've made. In the context of firearms under federal law, you are not allowed to make even a single baffle without either a C2 license or having paid the $200 Form 1 NFA tax. I count three that you've made.

With a design like this, you really should have researched the legality, not just the physics. I don't see any holes drilled that would suggest you are actively trying to avoid the NFA violation. I understand they're on the way, but the trouble is they are not there now as evidenced by the photos you've posted.

Again, not trying to hurt your feelings here. You seem to know what you're doing mechanically, but there is a very serious legal aspect to this type of design and I think you've inadvertantly blundered into it.

[M. Sage]

... If it's a worry, I'd suggest you just go locate and drill your first hole right now. You'll be fine with a vent hole through it.

[6079Winston]

I had a similar discussion with a friend over breakfast a few weeks ago. We had come up with a similar design when we discovered it would be a silencer if it was wrapped in an insulating material. Back to the drawing board.

[Builder]

I'm really not trying to be a smart-***, but from experience, I see suppressor parts, not muzzle brake parts. And so can anyone from DOJ or ATF with the photos you've posted. That's my point.

Thank you. What you see is parts for a muzzle brake, not a suppressor. Since the question wasn't answered by your experience (how much it would suppress), can we assume the 1.465" muzzle brake won't suppress any sound? Looks don't count otherwise a fake can would be a suppressor. Especially considering that the individual parts can't be assembled into a working suppressor.

Even if the unit as a whole does not meet "suppressor" due to sound suppression qualities, which is a maybe/maybe not at this point, they can still get you on the individual parts you've made.

Doesn't a suppressor have to suppress sound in order for it to be called a suppressor, true? Not just look like something. Isn't that what is written above?

In the context of firearms under federal law, you are not allowed to make even a single baffle without either a C2 license or having paid the $200 Form 1 NFA tax. I count three that you've made.

That assumption is that the parts actually are suppressor parts. Actually the pieces have the vent holes.

With a design like this, you really should have researched the legality, not just the physics. I don't see any holes drilled that would suggest you are actively trying to avoid the NFA violation. I understand they're on the way, but the trouble is they are not there now as evidenced by the photos you've posted.

The holes were drilled last night just after I posted, you just haven't seen the pictures published yet. Since this doesn't and can't suppress sound, it isn't a suppressor. True?
Thanks for the help,
Builder

[monkey]

Thank you. What you see is parts for a muzzle brake, not a suppressor. Since the question wasn't answered by your experience (how much it would suppress), can we assume the 1.465" muzzle brake won't suppress any sound? Looks don't count otherwise a fake can would be a suppressor. Especially considering that the individual parts can't be assembled into a working suppressor.Doesn't a suppressor have to suppress sound in order for it to be called a suppressor, true? Not just look like something. Isn't that what is written above?That assumption is that the parts actually are suppressor parts. Actually the pieces have the vent holes.The holes were drilled last night just after I posted, you just haven't seen the pictures published yet. Since this doesn't and can't suppress sound, it isn't a suppressor. True?
Thanks for the help,
Builder

Drilling the holes is the best thing you could have done. However, I would assemble the unit and send it off to ATF's Tech Branch for their review. Until they sign off on it, you'll never know where you stand.

But for future reference:

1) Many "fake" suppressors" are found to actually suppress or are accidentally made of "suppressor parts" in violation and this is why those who make real suppressors usually do not make fake ones for display, sales use or otherwise. They know the law and the science very well whereas those that make fake ones do not, so they have no idea what they're doing until the violation has already occurred.

2) "Suppressors" do not need to actually suppress anything since the definition includes "suppressor parts". A baffle is a "suppressor" in and of itself, yet a baffle doesn't suppress anything by itself. Now if you were making baffles for an engine muffler, there would be no problem with ATF. But in the context of firearms, you cannot make a baffle without having a C2 manufacturing license or having an approved ATF Form 1.

Hypothetically, if ATF was looking through your shop, the legal context of firearms would likely be easily established. Guns and gun parts all over, you actually own one or more guns, etc. Now in this context, to find those three baffles as pictured in the photos, you'd be in clear violation. That would be at least 3 felony counts maybe more depending on other factors.

If your your shop had no firearms context, but was clearly about automotive repair, there would be no violation.

[edittman1]

Maybe take down the pictures to check your 6 from the "man"?