Tapco Double Hook Trigger FTF Problem *Resolved*

[RobGR]

Update: Been shooting with the Texas FCG for a few months now and it has been flawless. I highly recommend them, not that I have a lot of experience, but it's solid. Hope it continues to hold up *knock on wood*

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Update: I have decided to drop the Tapco FCG and install the Texas Trigger I purchased. A great trigger!

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Update: Dremeled off flashing shown in (1) and the wear area on the receiver just for additional clearance. Didn't touch anything else.

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Purchased this AKM recently from a Calgunner and have had issues from the get go. Romy G parts kit built on a NoDakSpud receiver.

When shooting; Insert mag, drop safety lever, pull back charging handle, release, fire off first round, go to fire second round, trigger locks (completely locked, won't budge at all), ftf, then I pull back the charging handle back without ejecting the round, release the charging handle, which resets the trigger and it fires the second round. It went from every 8 rounds ftf to every round ftf.

I have single hook FCGs on my other AKs, no experience with double hooks and little experience modifying FCGs.

1) Should I dremel off this flashing/metal extension so there's no contact between the trigger and the area on the receiver in front of it? Pic of wear from center flashing/metal extension on receiver.


Trigger metal extension resting/seated on receiver.


2) Hammer and disconnector are making slight contact when I push the hammer down. This does not happen on my other AK47 or my 74 (which are single hook). If I take off a little on the back of the hammer with the dremel, a little off the front of the disconnector, I'm hoping I'm good. But the problem could lie in the metal flashing in front of the trigger, maybe once I remove that, there could be some separation, so reinstall first before doing that.



3) Then there is this metal nub that is behind the trigger. Remove it? Sorry, "nub" is my term for it, there's got to be a better term for it.


Thanks for any and all input.

[tujungatoes]

I generally advise against modding the contact surfaces of the fcg unless you're very familiar with their function. Getting overzealous with a dremel or file on the hammer or disconnector could lead to an unsafe condition. I believe your problems are being caused by the trigger not being able to fully pivot back to the released position.

Rather tham removing material from the trigger I would recommend you trim the tab on the receiver between the hooks where it's binding in the front.

I can't quite see if the reinforcement plate "nub" is contacting the trigger and further preventing it from pivoting. If that's the case you may have to shave the bottom of the trigger some, but I'd work on the more obvious problem first.

[RobGR]

Thanks for the info.

So that small wedge metal extension between the hooks is normal in front of the trigger? I don't have anything like that on the single hooks.

What made me come to this conclusion, removing that metal wedge, was this tutorial on CTD - http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=188
The second pic on that page shows what I plan to do, but wanted to confirm whether or not any calgunners have done this mod.

[mrlonewolf]

I generally advise against modding the contact surfaces of the fcg unless you're very familiar with their function. Getting overzealous with a dremel or file on the hammer or disconnector could lead to an unsafe condition. I believe your problems are being caused by the trigger not being able to fully pivot back to the released position.

Rather tham removing material from the trigger I would recommend you trim the tab on the receiver between the hooks where it's binding in the front.

I can't quite see if the reinforcement plate "nub" is contacting the trigger and further preventing it from pivoting. If that's the case you may have to shave the bottom of the trigger some, but I'd work on the more obvious problem first.

^^^ This.

[tujungatoes]

Either way should work fine. Hopefully that'll be all that's necessary. Just remember to go slow and check fit often.

[RobGR]

Will do, cheers.

[SJgunguy24]

Should I dremel off this flashing/metal extension so there's no contact between the trigger and the area on the receiver in front of it? Pic of wear from center flashing/metal extension on receiver.


Trigger metal extension resting/seated on receiver.


A large number of the G2 FCG I have used lately have had this same issue. I grind that little "extension" enough so it no longer makes contact with the receiver. Also, I don't mess with the receiver if all I have is double hook FCG, I cut the other hook off. It works just fine and everything measures the same.



2) Hammer and disconnector are making slight contact when I push the hammer down. This does not happen on my other AK47 or my 74 (which are single hook). If I take off a little on the back of the hammer with the dremel, a little off the front of the disconnector, I'm hoping I'm good. But the problem could lie in the metal flashing in front of the trigger, maybe once I remove that, there could be some separation, so reinstall first before doing that.



This is another common issue, they tend to stick when holding the trigger back. I'll hit the back edge (where the disconnector engages) of the hammer with a dremal just enough to get rid of the casting lines. That engagement is the area that needs to be worked over to fix any hammer follow issues if one should arise.


3) Then there is this metal nub that is behind the trigger. Remove it? Sorry, "nub" is my term for it, there's got to be a better term for it.


Thanks for any and all input.

You can grind that and you'll be OK, the legs on the inside are what stop the triggers movement. I build a lot of guns and go through so many G2 FCG's I should invest in that company.

[4thSBCT]

crazy, I wonder who got it wrong, tapco or NDS

[killathrilla]

...

[timdps]

NDS has a little troubleshooting blurb that might help:

http://www.nodakspud.com/troubleshooting.htm

Tim

[Gowking]

Try using the single hook triggers from one of your other AKs in the this rifle and see what's going on. I find it curious that the builder added a reinforcement plate to a NDS-3 receiver. Was it converted to a folder?

-MRA

[SJgunguy24]

NDS has a little troubleshooting blurb that might help:

http://www.nodakspud.com/troubleshooting.htm

Tim

That is for hammer follow situations. I've had maybe 15 or so FCG's do this to me (same problem as the OP), it seems Tapco is leaving slightly more material then normal. I've seen this with Saiga conversions also.

[RobGR]

Got the following info from a well respected AK gunsmith:


The correct procedure to verify if the trigger system is working; with the gun unloaded and the top cover off, hold the trigger in all the way, then pull back the hammer (pushing it past the sear/disconnector) until the sear clicks on to the hammer's flat surface area. Then slowly release the trigger very gently until the sear slides off the flat and you will hear a distinctive "click", then pull the trigger all the way back and the hammer will release and you will hear a second click. This is a basic safety check to verify that your trigger system is operating safely and properly, you can also look for any other areas around the trigger when there may be a clearance issue.


It's basically what was outlined in the link via nodakspud.com posted by timdps above. I did this manually (by simply pushing the hammer down with my thumb on my left hand while depressing the trigger with my right hand) as opposed to using the bolt and then replicated the issue with the bolt. I'm sorry to say I never knew about this simple check before but I hope it helps any and all who are having the same trigger issues. But it's a simple and solid technique that all AK owners should know.... which you guys probably do, I'm throwing that out there for others who are new to the platform or have not dealt with this issue yet. It's also something that can easily be done in a store before purchasing an AKM, especially a Century build or any other. And if only I had known about this before. How in the hell did the original owner shoot this thing, though he swears it was fine.....

So, the distinct "click" does not occur on my problem trigger. The hammer is seated beneath the sear/disconnector and is not sliding off to meet the double hooks. I release the trigger out all the way, then pull the trigger multiple times, nothing happens. It's locked into place. It definitely looks like the metal flashing is impending the rotation of the sear, not allowing the hammer to release or slide off. I also pushed from the back of the trigger forward when it was locked up and this tiny forward manipulation released the hammer from the sear.

Additionally, when doing the check with the bolt, pulling back the charging handle, releasing it, while holding down the trigger, the hammer would be locked behind the sear, thus replicating the issue. I would then repeat the action I took at the range, which was to gently pull the bolt back (without ejecting the cartridge) with my finger off the trigger and it did reset the trigger, releasing the hammer from the sear and allowing for correct release.

Please also comment if I phrased anything above incorrectly so that future viewers will not be misguided.

MRA, yes, this is a side folder. Good eye.

Thanks again all!

Okay, will dremel that front wedge off and report back.

[RobGR]

Well, that did the trick. Dremeled off the flashing and a little off the receiver. FCG checks out, now to the range in the next few days. I didn't touch any other parts per your recommendations.

Thanks again for all the input guys. I'm actually glad this happened so I learnt just a little bit more about the platform.

I ordered a TEXAS AK FCG last week as a precaution, so, here are some pics, just to share, of the FCGs next to each other. I would have had to have taken more off the receiver if I installed the TEXAS trigger.

Eh, not the best pics, looks like I took them with a Holga, but here they are. Very similar FCGs, but there are some subtle differences and the Texas FCG is supposedly more accurate.