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Precision rechambering

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  • Hunt
    Veteran Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 4833

    Precision rechambering

    M Bellm makes it sound like most rechambering jobs are hack jobs http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=468 anyone recommend a So CA precision rechamber artist.

    from Bellm's site ..."



    How I Go About My Work And What Sets It Apart.

    First off, my two hands do all of the rechamber work, muzzle brake work, and other critical machine work.

    Second, I DO NOT USE SAAMI SPEC. REAMERS!
    I craft chambers to fit ammo, including the bullet. I do not use oversize, ill-conceived, SAAMI type reamers that are typically too large in one or more important dimension or very poorly designed, especially in the throat area.

    I dial in the bore concentric with the axis of the lathe, more correctly I am dialing in off the groove area, at the point where the throat will be cut. All bores have some degree of curvature to them. None are perfectly straight. Welding the lug on the barrel also induces warpage and distortion of the bore. Dialing in off the bore at the point where the throat will be cut gives the most precise throating possible, FAR more precise than can ever be accomplished consistently with piloted reamers, even with tightly fitted pilot bushings at the risk of damage to the tops of the rifling.

    I cut NO chambers where the throat is cut at the same time as the body of the chamber. ALL throating is done separately, aligned with the bore and of minimum diameter, meaning just large enough to allow a bullet to enter it. Typical SAAMI throat diameters are from .001” to .005” or more larger than standard bullet/groove diameter, which is not only absurd but is basically the same condition as a barrel that is "shot out".

    Shooting enlarges the throat diameter. As the throat is enlarged, accuracy deteriorates. So when the throat diameter is cut larger to start with, you have a barrel that is to some degree "shot out" before you even fire the first round through it! Trying to "make" a barrel with a large factory throat shoot is often an impossibility. On the other hand, a barrel with the throat well aligned and of minimum diameter will shoot well with little effort or "load development" expense required. This assumes of course that the gun as a whole is assembled right and correct headspace maintained.

    Where possible, the initial "roughing" of the chamber is lathe bored with a boring bar, concentric with the bore. All rim counterbores are lathe bored, not cut with a reamer. Referenced off the bore, this assures the web area of the chamber is concentric with the bore and the rim counterbore is truely centered and square to the bore.

    Any fool can buy a reamer and whack out a chamber, but that is not how I go about it! If you want it quicker and cheaper, there are plenty of shops who will oblige you.


    Be sure to read this page regarding chambers and what a throat is.
    Click on the link above to go to the Chamber Cast Library. Use your Back button to return here.

    No one I know of gives this degree of attention to the all too critical throat area. Throats are the least understood, most ignored, and most taken for granted aspect of barrels in both the production world AND the world of custom gunsmithing.

    To date, in the area of TC barrels, David White is the only one I am aware of who dials in the bores and throats separately following my regimen. Most everyone else in the trade relies on the reamer companies to supply a reamer and use "floating reamer holders" that let the reamer wallow around. My system keeps the reamers in line with the bore.

    The object is to build everything around a straight line with everything square and concentric. There is no way a reamer wallowing around in a floating reamer holder will keep the chamber in line with the bore, yet letting the reamer wallow around is "common wisdom" elsewhere in the trade. I'm sorry, it is an impossibilty, born out by the runout found in most chambers cut this way.
    Last edited by Hunt; 07-04-2011, 9:42 AM.
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  • #2
    mofugly13
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2009
    • 885

    This guy sounds like he's chambering benchrest barrels. There are a lot of ways to chamber a benchrest barrel, and they all center around the proper alignment of the reamer to the centerline of the bore. Actually, all chambering jobs, BR or not, should seek to achieve perfect alignment of the chamber to the throat to the bore. If you ask over at www.benchrest.com you'll probably find someone in SoCal who knows the right way to chamber a precision barrel.
    No government deprives its citizens of rights without asserting that its actions are "reasonable" and "necessary" for high-sounding reasons such as "public safety."
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    • #3
      Fjold
      I need a LIFE!!
      • Oct 2005
      • 22905

      The guy works on Contender barrels not benchrest quality stuff.
      Frank

      One rifle, one planet, Holland's 375




      Life Member NRA, CRPA and SAF

      Comment

      • #4
        bridgeport
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2006
        • 782

        50 millionths....

        Comment

        • #5
          kendog4570
          Calguns Addict
          • Dec 2008
          • 5180

          Originally posted by bridgeport
          50 millionths....

          Thats a good thread!!
          Last edited by kendog4570; 07-04-2011, 7:39 PM.

          Comment

          • #6
            kendog4570
            Calguns Addict
            • Dec 2008
            • 5180

            Originally posted by Fjold
            The guy works on Contender barrels not benchrest quality stuff.
            But he's workin' it!

            Comment

            • #7
              bridgeport
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2006
              • 782

              Originally posted by kendog4570


              Thats a good thread!!
              Yep, a good one, this guy is steppin up though.... seriously.
              Last edited by bridgeport; 07-04-2011, 7:46 PM.

              Comment

              • #8
                Wrangler John
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2009
                • 1799

                Bellm bought out P.O. Ackley's shop and did rifles before specializing in Contenders. He did a barrel job for me in an Ackley Improved cartridge that is spot on back in the 1980's.

                If you want a precision chamber job try this site - from the guy that builds the tools other smiths use: www.gretanrifles.com

                Another is: www.hollandguns.com

                There are others, but these two are reliable and very accurate machinists.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Hunt
                  Veteran Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 4833

                  Originally posted by Wrangler John
                  Bellm bought out P.O. Ackley's shop and did rifles before specializing in Contenders. He did a barrel job for me in an Ackley Improved cartridge that is spot on back in the 1980's.

                  If you want a precision chamber job try this site - from the guy that builds the tools other smiths use: www.gretanrifles.com

                  Another is: www.hollandguns.com

                  There are others, but these two are reliable and very accurate machinists.
                  thanks Wrangler just about have myself talked into the rechamber job
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                  Comment

                  • #10
                    rero360
                    Veteran Member
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 3926

                    I'm not so sure about him bad mouthing SAAMI spec reamers, I just read a post over on the Hide where Frank (Lowlight) just got back from Robert Gradous's shop where he taught Frank how to build a rifle, 3 days include load development. He used a SAAMI spec 6.5 CM reamer and proceeded to produce a number of one hole groups. Granted, the indian is more important than the bow.

                    I would imagine (personally just getting into machining) so long as you dial in the barrel with two dial indicators and ensuring that the tooling is level and dialed in as well, keeping in mind that apparently most headstocks are slightly higher than the tailstock.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      freonr22
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 12945

                      Any thoughts on randall?
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                      • #12
                        G-forceJunkie
                        Calguns Addict
                        • Jul 2010
                        • 6305

                        No offence, but it sounds like he is doing proper, time consuming, accurate machining, nothing magical. Examples:

                        "I DO NOT USE SAAMI SPEC. REAMERS!
                        I craft chambers to fit ammo, including the bullet. I do not use oversize, ill-conceived, SAAMI type reamers that are typically too large in one or more important dimension or very poorly designed, especially in the throat area."

                        Yes, when one has controll of what ammo and bullet are going to be used, one can craft it for just that one. A general rechambering, as with a factory chamber, has to fit every weight and shaped bullet in that caliberthat someone may shove in there. Sorta like how most cars have all season tires to handle all the conditions they face. Dedicated drag cars get run only on dry tracks and get dedicated slicks.

                        "I dial in the bore concentric with the axis of the lathe, more correctly I am dialing in off the groove area, at the point where the throat will be cut."

                        No different than someone using a range rod that only sticks in as far as the chamber will be deep. Different methods to achieve similar results. But it sounds like he is countering the practice of not indicating in the bore at all and just using a piloted reamer do the work. No gunsmith would do this, so why is it amazing that he does?

                        "I cut NO chambers where the throat is cut at the same time as the body of the chamber. ALL throating is done separately,..."

                        So he does it in two steps, with two setups and two sets of cutters. This can be good or bad. The more steps and setups you perform, the more chances of errors there are. But it does give you seperate controll of cutting the throat. Gives you flexability to change it as you see fit. However, I believe, if you know the diameter and depth of the throat you want, just have it ground onto the custom reamer. They will grind it any dimension you want. One setup and one cutter, you know the throat and chamber are perfectaly concentric to each other.

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