Saiga 12 conversion trigger problem

[SayNo2NWO]

I'm hoping somebody can help me out. I did a pistol grip conversion on my S-12 and swapped out the trigger with a Tapco G2. When I have the dust cover off and rack the bolt manually it seems stiff, but trigger and safety works fine. Hammer drops, etc. But when I fire it the hammer gets caught in a way that jams the trigger and prevents it from firing until I remove the dust cover and manually pull the hammer out from (not sure what the name is) the hook its under which, I can't seem to duplicate manually. I can't push the hammer down far enough to engage that hook, only happens once fired. Any ideas?

Thanks.. Jon

[Cokebottle]

That is the disconnector/sear, and it should move back and release the hammer when you release the trigger.
It's purpose is to hold the hammer back and prevent repetitive fire/slam fire while you are holding the trigger back.

[ke6guj]

did you use a stock Tapco FCG or one that was modifed for use in an S-12?

[SJgunguy24]

did you use a stock Tapco FCG or one that was modifed for use in an S-12?

It's modified Jack.
OP, you need to polish the casting lines off the hammer and disconnector surfaces. Do not alter the angles unless you know what your doing, just get rid of the rough surface and the disconnector will release like it's designed to.

[RLTW]

I'm hoping somebody can help me out. I did a pistol grip conversion on my S-12 and swapped out the trigger with a Tapco G2. When I have the dust cover off and rack the bolt manually it seems stiff, but trigger and safety works fine. Hammer drops, etc. But when I fire it the hammer gets caught in a way that jams the trigger and prevents it from firing until I remove the dust cover and manually pull the hammer out from (not sure what the name is) the hook its under which, I can't seem to duplicate manually. I can't push the hammer down far enough to engage that hook, only happens once fired. Any ideas?

Thanks.. Jon

Hi Jon,

Who profiled your hammer?

Whom ever did it took to much off, so I am curious to see what the bolt and carrier looks like.

As the shotgun cycles, it slides back and resets. If you remove to much off it won't reset properly. Thus locking the hammer in place.

Please take a picture from underneath the trigger. The bolt and carrier surface.

Thanks

[SJgunguy24]

Hi Jon,

Who profiled your hammer?

Whom ever did it took to much off, so I am curious to see what the bolt and carrier looks like.

As the shotgun cycles, it slides back and resets. If you remove to much off it won't reset properly. Thus locking the hammer in place.

Please take a picture from underneath the trigger. The bolt and carrier surface.

Thanks

That's usually what the Dinzag FCG and some others look like when they're modified for use in a Saiga.
Personally I don't like to do anything to the hammer face until I fit the FCG. Saiga's are close but there's enough of a difference I tune each FCG for that gun.

[SayNo2NWO]

Hi RLTW,

I profiled the hammer, didn't modify anything else. The bolt and carrier are unaltered. I understand there has to be enough metal on the hammer for the bolt to push it down and reset the trigger during the firing cycle. The Tapco hammer I profiled was doing this but for whatever reason, it would get stuck/held by the disconnector. IOW, once under the disconnector, I would have to push the trigger forward with a fair amount of force to get the hammer to release and then be held by the hammer hook, ready to fire. Not sure what would cause this?

So I tried putting the original hammer back, keeping the G2 FCG in place. Works perfectly, no problems now other than stove pipe feed failures and difficulty inserting a magazine on the closed bolt... But one thing at a time! Is it okay to leave the original hammer in there or should I obtain and reprofile another Tapco one?

P.S. Are the Tapco G2 hammers the same for the single hook and double hook triggers? IOW, can you swap hammers between the two FCGs?

P.P.S The only dimension I didn't modify on the Tapco hammer is the pivot which appears longer than the original b/c I was able to install and didn't bind without shortening this dimension.

Thanks for the assistance... Jon

[SJgunguy24]

Hi RLTW,

I profiled the hammer, didn't modify anything else. The bolt and carrier are unaltered. I understand there has to be enough metal on the hammer for the bolt to push it down and reset the trigger during the firing cycle. The Tapco hammer I profiled was doing this but for whatever reason, it would get stuck/held by the disconnector. IOW, once under the disconnector, I would have to push the trigger forward with a fair amount of force to get the hammer to release and then be held by the hammer hook, ready to fire. Not sure what would cause this?

The casting lines on the hammer need to be cleaned up, then the disconnector will release the hammer as normal.

So I tried putting the original hammer back, keeping the G2 FCG in place. Works perfectly, no problems now other than stove pipe feed failures and difficulty inserting a magazine on the closed bolt... But one thing at a time! Is it okay to leave the original hammer in there or should I obtain and reprofile another Tapco

Your going to find loading a mag on a closed bolt tough unless a polish job is done. Leaving the OE hammer in is fine as long as you have enough parts to comply with 922r.

P.S. Are the Tapco G2 hammers the same for the single hook and double hook triggers? IOW, can you swap hammers between the two FCGs?

Yes they are the same.

P.P.S The only dimension I didn't modify on the Tapco hammer is the pivot which appears longer than the original b/c I was able to install and didn't bind without shortening this dimension.

That only needs to be narrowed if you wish to retain the OEM bolt hold open feature.

Thanks for the assistance... Jon

You directed this for RLTW but I hope I answered your questions. Did you check for a hammer follow condition when you fit everything up?

[RLTW]

Here is what I was talking to you on the phone about. The Hammer needs to be ground down to allow for the BHO. Now if you don't want to keep your BHO then take out and the hammer will be fine. You can modify your safety to keep the charging handle back.

I borrowed these pics from another webiste from Moe Zambeak.

(Pictures won't appear)

[SayNo2NWO]

Hi SJ,

Thanks for the replies. Yes, the original hammer now functions as intended, catches on the hook fine, no follow. I kept the BHO and ground the Tapco hammer to clear it, but couldn't get it to work. Each time it would catch on the disconnecter and get stuck until I pushed the trigger forward hard to release it. Tried polishing, etc. Funny thing though, I did get the Tapco hammer to work, but only when the retainer pin was NOT all the way through the receiver. IOW, it needs a little tap to get it completely through to install the e-clip, but when it was just touching the opposite end of the receiver, before installing the retainer clip, it would function fine! I just got fed up and reinstalled the stock hammer. All good with the trigger now. Just need to figure out how to get the gas block removed to enlarge the ports and fix the stove pipe issues.

[SJgunguy24]

Hi SJ,

Thanks for the replies. Yes, the original hammer now functions as intended, catches on the hook fine, no follow. I kept the BHO and ground the Tapco hammer to clear it, but couldn't get it to work. Each time it would catch on the disconnecter and get stuck until I pushed the trigger forward hard to release it. Tried polishing, etc. Funny thing though, I did get the Tapco hammer to work, but only when the retainer pin was NOT all the way through the receiver. IOW, it needs a little tap to get it completely through to install the e-clip, but when it was just touching the opposite end of the receiver, before installing the retainer clip, it would function fine! I just got fed up and reinstalled the stock hammer. All good with the trigger now. Just need to figure out how to get the gas block removed to enlarge the ports and fix the stove pipe issues.

Don't open the ports up unless you've done everything first. My advise to anybody who wants me to start drilling on their guns is run 200 rounds of high brass, then come see me if your still having issues. I can polish the bolt and carrier to slick up the action a bit. Sometimes the ports are blocked, sometimes the gas block itself is blocking the ports. When you open the ports you increase the amount of fouling that can get into the gas system and jam stuff up. Don't forget, the carbon, lead, and plastic doesn't all get blown down the barrel, some gets shaved off and ends up in the gas system. Thy enginerred a blow by hole in the gas block to get rid of that. But if you load up the system by increasing the size of the holes too much, that will lead to fouling.
I'm taking a customers Saiga 12 out today, the gun was bought at BAGV and he was told it was a Henderson Defense conversion. The port was drilled out to .250" and it won't even function. It looks nice but........Well I gotta fix their mess. So beware when opening up the ports.

[RLTW]

Don't open the ports up unless you've done everything first. My advise to anybody who wants me to start drilling on their guns is run 200 rounds of high brass

Sometimes the ports are blocked, sometimes the gas block itself is blocking the ports. When you open the ports you increase the amount of fouling that can get into the gas system and jam stuff up. Don't forget, the carbon, lead, and plastic doesn't all get blown down the barrel, some gets shaved off and ends up in the gas system. Thy enginerred a blow by hole in the gas block to get rid of that. But if you load up the system by increasing the size of the holes too much, that will lead to fouling.

Great points...

I opened up mine.

Since I have it runs great. Cleaning is the key. After shooting around 175-200 rounds of the cheap Walmart crap.. It began to foul.. Now on that same note it was fouling shooting the Walmart junk. A couple FTE every few rounds. Loaded up 00 into 2 mags and not one problem.

Cleaned out the gas block and puck along with the ports. Good to go. Maintance is key.