Lauer park pre-dip?

[Ub3rD0rk]

I just ordered Park solution and the pre-dip from Lauer Weaponry and was wondering if the pre-dip would contaminate the park solution or not? I plan on saving the solution after I use it and it seems like the pre-dip solution still on the part as it goes into the park could contaminate it in some way. Also, is the pr-dip really worth it? I diddn't find much about it online, but I am looking for a deep black and figured it couldn't hurt to try.

[grumpydan]

Good question.

I don't know the answer but I was wondering the same thing...

[Roccobro]

The instructions say to go into the pre-dip for 15 seconds, then immediately into park tank. Since I diluted mine 4:1 with distilled water I leave it in for 60 seconds then in to park tank.

Both solutions are acidic. I think if it would contaminate the phosphate solution Lauer would add a water rinse between the two.

I have not seen any problems in the last 2 months of using it per instructions. I love the stuff.

Justin

[grumpydan]

Just curious on why you dilute, any advice you could pass on to us novice's that will be attempting this in the future?

[Fern]

I would say cost, and it will make 4 times as many batches as undiluted. But thats just a guess. Stuff works GREAT.

[Roccobro]

Yes, at $14 a quart, it would take about 10 to fill up my tank to a level to soak a rifle. So far I have 6 quarts in to 1 gal distilled water. I'm slowly adding concentrate as I can afford it.

I'm happy with it. And I'm sure I'll be able to make my BP finishes even better with practice and further testing.

Justin

[Ub3rD0rk]

So I've been messing around with my new park setup and the pre-dip from Lauer. I am at a complete loss with the pre-dip. I have tried following the dirrections but at no time do I end up with a part that even looks remotely good. I soaked the part for 15 seconds then parked, 10 seconds the parked and even 5 seconds the parked. In all the times, the part came out a nice deep black with a very slight burgandy undertone. Then after a rinse and spray with WD40, The color just runs off. If I park without the pre-dip I end up with an even dark charcoal grey solid finish. I even tried the pre-dip as a post-dip on a part that had a nice park finish and the dip stripped the park right off! At this point the only thing I can think to use this stuff for, is to remove the finish from old parts. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

This is the rear sight block with no pre-dip


This is the front trunnion with the pre-dip


Both of these parts were blasted, cleaned with alcohol, a hot water bath, Then parked at the same time in the same solution. The only thing that differed between the 2 parts was the trunnion went into the pre-dip for 5 seconds inbetween the hot water and park tank.

[Fern]

At Roccobro's we brake clean, media blast, brake clean, allow to dry, pre dip, park for 15 mins or untill it stops bubbling. Rinse off the parts with water, coat in oil, wrap in sawran (sp) wrap and let the oil penetrate for a week.

[Ub3rD0rk]

Same trunnion as above, No pre-dip this time, just parked at 200 deg. for 15min. It's damned near black. I think I'm giving up on the whole pre-dip crap. It's expensive and diddn't work. I found that if I use the parkerizing solution from lauer weaponry, 4 gallons per 1 gallon of solution, at 185 degrees for 20 min. I get a dark grey color. the same mix at 200deg. for 15 min. I get a dark black. This weekend i'm going to do 2 whole AK's, I'll do one in the grey and one in the black and see what happens. So far i've only done small parts alone.

[pepsi2451]

Same trunnion as above, No pre-dip this time, just parked at 200 deg. for 15min. It's damned near black. I think I'm giving up on the whole pre-dip crap. It's expensive and diddn't work. I found that if I use the parkerizing solution from lauer weaponry, 4 gallons per 1 gallon of solution, at 185 degrees for 20 min. I get a dark grey color. the same mix at 200deg. for 15 min. I get a dark black. This weekend i'm going to do 2 whole AK's, I'll do one in the grey and one in the black and see what happens. So far i've only done small parts alone.

Keep us updated. I need to order some solution and I was debating whether or not to spend the money on pre-dip.

[Ub3rD0rk]

"Any chance the WD40 is the culprit?"
I don't believe so, The finish would just wipe off as soon as it would come out. I thought at first it needed to "cure" so I let it sit and cool down, same results. I feel like I've tried everything with the pre-dip, maybe it's a bad batch.

"Keep us updated. I need to order some solution and I was debating whether or not to spend the money on pre-dip."
Will do. I really like the results I got without the pre-dip at at both temps. I think I'm going to do my underfolder PMKMS in the gray and my romy G's in the black. The small change in temps really made a big difference in the finished color.

Non the less I may try the pre-dip a few more times in different ways to see if I can get something to work. Maybe pre-dip, and then hot rinse, then park?

[smoothy8500]

I use the Lauer black manganese park solution, but not the "pre-dip". I did a bunch of on line research a couple years back on "pre-dip" and it seems that the general response was not that impressive. I have the same results with varying the temps.

[Roccobro]

I have seen an impressive difference. Enough that I've bought 6 bottle of the stuff to date.

I have seen the black dip wipe off of some parts, my thought was they were a different alloy (safety selector on a S&W). The slide was very dark after dip- before it even hit the park tank. I know the dip process wasn't "rubbing off" the slide as we scrubbed around the front and rear sights when it wasn't taking there. Seems there was a bit of oil under the sights that media blasting couldn't remove. 2 minutes in solution and some rubbing with Q tips made it uniform black at every spot on it before parking. BLACK BLACK BLACK as it came out of the park tank- BEFORE oiling!

If your still up to it, skip the hot water after blasting thing. That is just adding a few contaminants and a chemical process (flash rust) to the metal prior to letting the acids do the REAL work.

Be sure to use distilled water (minerals are not desired), and season the tank with some squeeky clean steel wool. My best results are at 185-190 deg. To concentrate a solution made parts more gun metal gray than black.

Justin