AGI worth the $$$????

[IrishPirate]

My brother was looking at becoming a gun smith and was wondering if the AGI training program was worth the cost ($4,000 to $9,000 depending on the level). Any here have any experience with AGI or know of a more reputable training program? He currently lives in Illinois. Thanks!!!

[Gunsmithing]

My brother was looking at becoming a gun smith and was wondering if the AGI training program was worth the cost ($4,000 to $9,000 depending on the level). Any here have any experience with AGI or know of a more reputable training program? He currently lives in Illinois. Thanks!!!

Has more to do with your brother's background on the type school is best for him.

• Does he have any background in metal working.
• If he has a lot this good school
• If not goto a school that has some machine shop training
• If has a lot background in firearms and metal work try on line lower in cost
• Who does he learn some do better with video, on line or class room
• The cost for on line is less than $800,00 and some class room is over $10,000

.

To become a gunsmith is more of self employment than finding a job in work.
Most that did any gunsmithing class do not get any work as a gunsmith. No school do not say any thing about no jobs, each year the school turn out thousands in the profession and very few will ever make money from the work. A few will get a clerk job in sales at gun shops. I way to check this out for your self get yellow page book from 5 or 10 years ago and todays book, look at the number of gunsmiths. All most all will be gun shops trying to bring in more sales.

I enjoy the work and know I am not making big money from the work.

Good luck
Dave

[IrishPirate]

I hate to be the grammer nazi, but that was kind of hard to read.....i appreciate the response and I'll pass it on, but you might want to proof read your posts sometimes... Or not, it's not a huge deal. I do appreciate the insight into the field.

I'm just trying to find out the quality of this particular training for my brother. Google has some mixed reviews and I dont generally trust reviews that get posted on a product's website, so i figured Calguns would be the best place to get some info. Anyone else have any input???

[gunboat]

I understand the school in susanville is good, but I have no knowledge of the costs.
I do think it would be difficult to earn a living gunsmithing as a day job.
I think it would require having an actual retail store rather than just a repair shop.
In metropolitan areas shop rental , permits, insurance and a multitude of small detail expenses could make it pretty difficult.
my ha-penny -

[Gunsmithing]

I know that post with out reading my posting most do not that post while I am on hold.

Back to AGI the good and bad
The good
It is a good school for any that likes videos

The bad
It does cost a lot
Does not teach Machine work or welding very well.


The last item is trying to make a living at the gunsmithing.

Dave

PS I did not proof read this

I hate to be the grammer nazi, but that was kind of hard to read.....i appreciate the response and I'll pass it on, but you might want to proof read your posts sometimes... Or not, it's not a huge deal. I do appreciate the insight into the field.

I'm just trying to find out the quality of this particular training for my brother. Google has some mixed reviews and I dont generally trust reviews that get posted on a product's website, so i figured Calguns would be the best place to get some info. Anyone else have any input???

[IrishPirate]

PS I did not proof read this

lol

thanks I'll let him know. He was under the inpression that the welding was also good instruction and thought that might also benefit him down the road.

[popeye4]

The AGI Professional Gunsmith videos are of Bob Dunlap giving the classroom instruction at Lassen (in Susanville) when they were under a semester-based program. They will teach you the "design, function, and repair" aspect, mainly "how" the firearms work. They are dry as hell; Bob is a character but his humor does not come through in the videos. I think they are good for what they are, but they will NOT train you to be a qualified gunsmith.

For metalwork, you can get machine shop and welding classes at many junior colleges. AGI has welding and machining videos as well, and they are better than nothing, but this isn't really a craft you can learn without hands-on training and experience. You will need the guidance of an experienced person to keep you going in the right direction (or a big budget for screwing up guns!).

I took a few classes at Lassen a few years ago when I was on a "sabbatical" from the high tech industry (yeah, I got laid off). They are set up on a weekly program now, you take one class for a 40 hour week, but you can (and probably should) take the class several times to become competent. The structure does provide flexibility for those who can't devote 2-3 years to a full time semester-based school.

Of course, making a living at it is a whole 'nother story, something they just wouldnt talk about at Lassen!

[bj16509]

Having just completed the AGI gunsmithing course (not including the welding and machine tool supplements however), here's my impression:

Overall the course is very informative, but it is almost entirely focused (purposely) on theory and not technique. In other words when Bob Dunlap says to stone a sear notch so that it has a slightly positive angle, he does not show you how to stone it, just where and why. It probably would not be possible to do a really good job teaching technique via video however, so that's not necessarily a criticism. Having said that my guess is that most gunsmiths don't have even a small percentage of the basic knowledge that is contained in Dunlap's lectures.

The DVD's in the professional course contain over 100 hours of lecture, so anyone who takes the course seriously will be spending a lot of time in front of a screen. In addition, the tests are "open video" and in order to complete them successfully even more time will be spent in front of the screen looking for the answers. There are five tests in the course: introduction, pistols and revolvers, shotguns, rimfire rifles, and centerfire rifles. The tests range from around 85 questions to 105 questions - some are better than others and some could really use improvement (I'll include my qualifications to critique the tests at the end of this). A score of 80% is required to pass each test. Re-tests are possible if a passing score is not achieved on a test.

Your brother should know that the DVD's are made from tapes, and that the tapes are anywhere from 18 to 20 years old. That does not mean that the information is out-of-date, but it's something he should know before he spends his money. Bob Dunlap is a good lecturer, but if someone is a complete novice with firearms Dunlap can be a little difficult to follow as he sometimes gets his terms confused (someone off camera does a pretty good job of correcting him however).

Since I already had experience with machine tools and welding I did not take those parts of the course, so I can't comment on them. It seems to me that without hands-on experience both would be hard to teach successfully via video instruction however.

Is someone who completes the AGI professional course a gunsmith? Well, probably not any more than someone who gets a degree in engineering is an engineer. I say that because I've taught engineering in college and taught (and still teach) engineers privately at companies like General Electric.

If your brother can manage to attend a gunsmithing school such as the one's at Lassen in California or Trinidad in Colorado I think he will certainly gain more application-specific knowledge and a better education overall- if not AGI is probably the best alternative.

Can he make a good living as a gunsmith? That's really hard to say, but it seems to me that if he wants to be successful financially he is going to have to specialize in some high-end skill and specialize in self-promotion (and not necessarily in that order....) or he's going to find it difficult to make a decent living.

Hope this helps - all the best to you and your brother.

Bob Johnson

[gunboat]

bj -- that is an excellent evaluation !!
Your comments about machining and welding are spot on as well -- The only real way to gain knowledge about both is hands on -- got to crank the dials and strike an arc.

[Gunsmithing]

AGI gunsmithing courses does come with a lathe (7X12) and DVD How to run a lathe. On the other hand other schools will have a one week course in machine work and welding. I did find a few gunsmithing colleges that said go to your local college and take at less two years of machine work and one year of welding. This was to complete your gunsmithing degree.

It is very hard to teach machine work in person try to do this from a DVD. Just look back 40 years ago Colleges had a 2 or 4 year degree as a machinist. The next step was to work in the field for 20,000 hours. There are a few that feel you can learn in a few hour ever thing from a book/DVD.

Manual machine work is a dieing profession to day. Weld is still in colleges and trade school. Try to find a college that has any courses in manual machine work today. All college today I have found only has CNC.

The other bad news going to a gunsmith school very few will ever work in the the profession. A few will work in sales and if they are lucky at this time put scope or other accessories. Very few will ever work as a true gunsmith.


Dave

Having just completed the AGI gunsmithing course (not including the welding and machine tool supplements however), here's my impression:

Overall the course is very informative, but it is almost entirely focused (purposely) on theory and not technique. In other words when Bob Dunlap says to stone a sear notch so that it has a slightly positive angle, he does not show you how to stone it, just where and why. It probably would not be possible to do a really good job teaching technique via video however, so that's not necessarily a criticism. Having said that my guess is that most gunsmiths don't have even a small percentage of the basic knowledge that is contained in Dunlap's lectures.

The DVD's in the professional course contain over 100 hours of lecture, so anyone who takes the course seriously will be spending a lot of time in front of a screen. In addition, the tests are "open video" and in order to complete them successfully even more time will be spent in front of the screen looking for the answers. There are five tests in the course: introduction, pistols and revolvers, shotguns, rimfire rifles, and centerfire rifles. The tests range from around 85 questions to 105 questions - some are better than others and some could really use improvement (I'll include my qualifications to critique the tests at the end of this). A score of 80% is required to pass each test. Re-tests are possible if a passing score is not achieved on a test.

Your brother should know that the DVD's are made from tapes, and that the tapes are anywhere from 18 to 20 years old. That does not mean that the information is out-of-date, but it's something he should know before he spends his money. Bob Dunlap is a good lecturer, but if someone is a complete novice with firearms Dunlap can be a little difficult to follow as he sometimes gets his terms confused (someone off camera does a pretty good job of correcting him however).

Since I already had experience with machine tools and welding I did not take those parts of the course, so I can't comment on them. It seems to me that without hands-on experience both would be hard to teach successfully via video instruction however.

Is someone who completes the AGI professional course a gunsmith? Well, probably not any more than someone who gets a degree in engineering is an engineer. I say that because I've taught engineering in college and taught (and still teach) engineers privately at companies like General Electric.

If your brother can manage to attend a gunsmithing school such as the one's at Lassen in California or Trinidad in Colorado I think he will certainly gain more application-specific knowledge and a better education overall- if not AGI is probably the best alternative.

Can he make a good living as a gunsmith? That's really hard to say, but it seems to me that if he wants to be successful financially he is going to have to specialize in some high-end skill and specialize in self-promotion (and not necessarily in that order....) or he's going to find it difficult to make a decent living.

Hope this helps - all the best to you and your brother.

Bob Johnson

[CSACANNONEER]

Is someone who completes the AGI professional course a gunsmith? Well, probably not any more than someone who gets a degree in engineering is an engineer. I say that because I've taught engineering in college and taught (and still teach) engineers privately at companies like General Electric.

Bob Johnson

Great analogy! I think that most people do not understand that a degree in engineering is not required to become a licensed engineer. With or without a degree, one needs to work in thier choosen field under a licensed engineer for several years, get letters of recomendation from licesed enginners and pass several different tests. While there is no state issued gunsmithing license, I'd think that most real smiths work under someone else for a while before venturing out on their own. Or, at least they take several years of machining classes, hands on gunsmithing classes and work on thier own guns for a while before thinking that they can charge for their services.

[Ford8N]

I have a friend that is a gunsmith and I asked him what he makes for a living. He is self employed and after everything is added up and his time, he make about ten to fifteen dollars an hour. And he has been doing the work for over thirty years. I don't think it is worth it. As they say, don't quit your day job.

[Gunsmithing]

It is work you do for fun and enjoyment. No will make big money from being a gunsmith. Any one starting I tell them do not quite your day job. Some time this is only a moonlighting profession

Dave

I have a friend that is a gunsmith and I asked him what he makes for a living. He is self employed and after everything is added up and his time, he make about ten to fifteen dollars an hour. And he has been doing the work for over thirty years. I don't think it is worth it. As they say, don't quit your day job.

[IrishPirate]

Having just completed the AGI gunsmithing course (not including the welding and machine tool supplements however), here's my impression:

Overall the course is very informative, but it is almost entirely focused (purposely) on theory and not technique. In other words when Bob Dunlap says to stone a sear notch so that it has a slightly positive angle, he does not show you how to stone it, just where and why. It probably would not be possible to do a really good job teaching technique via video however, so that's not necessarily a criticism. Having said that my guess is that most gunsmiths don't have even a small percentage of the basic knowledge that is contained in Dunlap's lectures.

The DVD's in the professional course contain over 100 hours of lecture, so anyone who takes the course seriously will be spending a lot of time in front of a screen. In addition, the tests are "open video" and in order to complete them successfully even more time will be spent in front of the screen looking for the answers. There are five tests in the course: introduction, pistols and revolvers, shotguns, rimfire rifles, and centerfire rifles. The tests range from around 85 questions to 105 questions - some are better than others and some could really use improvement (I'll include my qualifications to critique the tests at the end of this). A score of 80% is required to pass each test. Re-tests are possible if a passing score is not achieved on a test.

Your brother should know that the DVD's are made from tapes, and that the tapes are anywhere from 18 to 20 years old. That does not mean that the information is out-of-date, but it's something he should know before he spends his money. Bob Dunlap is a good lecturer, but if someone is a complete novice with firearms Dunlap can be a little difficult to follow as he sometimes gets his terms confused (someone off camera does a pretty good job of correcting him however).

Since I already had experience with machine tools and welding I did not take those parts of the course, so I can't comment on them. It seems to me that without hands-on experience both would be hard to teach successfully via video instruction however.

Is someone who completes the AGI professional course a gunsmith? Well, probably not any more than someone who gets a degree in engineering is an engineer. I say that because I've taught engineering in college and taught (and still teach) engineers privately at companies like General Electric.

If your brother can manage to attend a gunsmithing school such as the one's at Lassen in California or Trinidad in Colorado I think he will certainly gain more application-specific knowledge and a better education overall- if not AGI is probably the best alternative.

Can he make a good living as a gunsmith? That's really hard to say, but it seems to me that if he wants to be successful financially he is going to have to specialize in some high-end skill and specialize in self-promotion (and not necessarily in that order....) or he's going to find it difficult to make a decent living.

Hope this helps - all the best to you and your brother.

Bob Johnson

I have a friend that is a gunsmith and I asked him what he makes for a living. He is self employed and after everything is added up and his time, he make about ten to fifteen dollars an hour. And he has been doing the work for over thirty years. I don't think it is worth it. As they say, don't quit your day job.

i will definitely pass this info on. thank you guys very much!!!!

[biglou]

Can someone explain the difference between an Armorer and a Gunsmith ?