80% home built s/n question

[tdaughg]

im working on building an 80% 1911 that i want to get the ionbond coating put on once im all done. as we all know home builds are not required to have any s/n or manufacturer markings on them. but as i understand it, it does have to be marked if i plan on mailing it out so that it can be properly logged in/out since it would legally be a firearm.

the law says what licensed manufacturers must put on their firearms. since there isnt a requirement to mark a homebuilt frame in the first place, can i put the markings anywhere i want? maybe some place like behind the grip panel or inside the channel where the recoil spring sits?

the first line of the penal code is what has me a little hesitant to put info some place more hidden since it says "conspicuously placing".

"...By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved..."

so what does everyone think? hide it behind the grips or slap it on the side like all the rest of them?

[Paul_R]

Have you asked the shop you're sending it to what they think?

[Nathan Krynn]

Once you modify an 80% it is a firearm.

Shipping a firearm is considered transferring it. When you transfer a firearm the receiving party must log it into their FFL logs. To do so it needs a serial number. So the receiving party would not legally be able to accept it as it has no serial number and then they can't legally send it back as they can't log it out either.

So you put a FFL holder in quite a pickle by sending them a firearm with no serial number.

[tdaughg]

thanks for the responses. i don't think i asked the question right so let me try it another way

i know i will have to put a serial number on the gun, I've got that job figured out now. the question is WHERE do i have to put it? can i put it somewhere that it CAN'T be seen when fully assembles like behind a grip panel or does it have it be somewhere that's always visible?

[Paul_R]

The language is clear. I ask most respectfully, what part of "conspicuous" do you not understand?

[CSACANNONEER]

Actually, there are millions of production firearms without SNs. They get logged into FFL books all the time with the SN "NONE". If you don't want to mark your homebuild, ask the shop you're sending it to if they will take it, to preform work for you, without a SN on it. If not, there are certain size and depth requirements, as well as, requirements regaurding what you must include in the markings. Some major manufacturers have placed SNs in places that are not what I'd call "conspicuous". Certain revolvers have SNs which are hidden unless the cylider is open or the grips are not on the gun.

[ke6guj]

Once you modify an 80% it is a firearm.

Shipping a firearm is considered transferring it. When you transfer a firearm the receiving party must log it into their FFL logs. To do so it needs a serial number. So the receiving party would not legally be able to accept it as it has no serial number and then they can't legally send it back as they can't log it out either.

So you put a FFL holder in quite a pickle by sending them a firearm with no serial number.

can't it be logged in as "no serial number" for the repair work? It isn't bening sold, just worked on by an FFL. What if I send in an old firearm that doesn't have a serial number for repair? It gets logged in without a serial number. And it can even be transfered without a serial number. We know that ATF claims that a homebuilt firearm must be marked the same way a manufacturer must (even though the pertinant law only refers to licensed manufacturers) if the firearm is sold, but I haven't heard them say that you must mark it if you want to have an FFL work on it for you.

edit: too slow

[tdaughg]

Actually, there are millions of production firearms without SNs. They get logged into FFL books all the time with the SN "NONE". If you don't want to mark your homebuild, ask the shop you're sending it to if they will take it, to preform work for you, without a SN on it. If not, there are certain size and depth requirements, as well as, requirements regaurding what you must include in the markings. Some major manufacturers have placed SNs in places that are not what I'd call "conspicuous". Certain revolvers have SNs which are hidden unless the cylider is open or the grips are not on the gun.

thank you! this is exactly the info i needed. if colt or ruger or whoever can do it so can i.

[nick]

Actually, there are millions of production firearms without SNs. They get logged into FFL books all the time with the SN "NONE". If you don't want to mark your homebuild, ask the shop you're sending it to if they will take it, to preform work for you, without a SN on it. If not, there are certain size and depth requirements, as well as, requirements regaurding what you must include in the markings. Some major manufacturers have placed SNs in places that are not what I'd call "conspicuous". Certain revolvers have SNs which are hidden unless the cylider is open or the grips are not on the gun.

+1. I have a Mossberg .22 semiauto rifle that I bought through a dealer transfer, it has no serial number. It was manufactured before such requirements were in place.

[ALSystems]

Just write the serial number in crayon but make sure its conspicuous.

[CSACANNONEER]

edit: too slow

It's about time that I beat you to the punch.

[Cali-V]

Note, a lot of the new 100% 1919A4 plates have manufacture info on the inside, with period correct engraving on the outside...

Ask the smith if a none marked firearm works for him....

[Nathan Krynn]

+1. I have a Mossberg .22 semiauto rifle that I bought through a dealer transfer, it has no serial number. It was manufactured before such requirements were in place.

The "it was manufactured before such requirements were in place" is the key. a C/R requirements are different then modern firearms. I have old firearms with no serial numbers as well, many matter fact but if an inspector went into a FFL's shop and asked the FFL holder "who's AR-15 receiver is that with no markings" and he doesn't answer his, he is in a pickle.

Put it this way. I make 80%'s as my business but I can not allow them to be shipped back to me if milled and no required markings. This came from the BATFE inspectors that came to our shop.

Just like you are not allowed to make 80% for resale as that would be manufacturing with out a type 7. But if later down the road you wanted someone else to have it then you could not allow that until there were the required markings.

[45mike]

What's the possiability of having the ion bond process done before you complete the lower?. u could ship it without the restrictions.

[jamesob]

What's the possiability of having the ion bond process done before you complete the lower?. u could ship it without the restrictions.

they do sell coated 80%ers