Gunsmithing - Training?

[Weekender]

Hi All,

I'm doing some research on Gunsmithing as a new trade.

Are there any working gunsmiths on this board that could offer information on becoming a trained gunsmith?

Are there any colleges in SO. Cal that have reputable training programs?

How did you get started?

Is an apprenticeship required to become a skilled gunsmith? If so do you have recommendations on obtaining apprentice work?

Are the working conditions generally good?

Any "does" and "don'ts" that are important for a newcomer to the trade?

What does the job market look like to you?

What is a reasonable expectation for wages / salary to start out?

Any other words of wisdom you have the offer

Much thanks in advance

Weekender

[Mark_Stratton]

Getting Started?

Well first talk to you about getting started let me introduce myself. My name is Mark Stratton and I'm a member of the American Gunmakers Guild. I have a degree from Trinidad State College in gunsmithing. I've taught at Trinidad during there NRA summer gunsmithing program for 10 years. I own my own custom rifle building business. I wrote a book on the subject called "Tricks of the Trade" Custome Rifle Metalsmithing, now in its 7th printing.

Now to your question about getting started.... There is nowhere in southern california that you can learn the trade. There is a school in northern california, at Susanville where you can get your feet wet. My advice is to take a NRA summer course and see if gunsmithing is really something you want to get into. There are several other colleges in the country where they teach gunsmithing. Colorado School of Trades, Trinidad State College have good programs. Gunsmithing is a big field with lots of different areas to get envolve in, and the area you choose has to do with the amount of money you might make.

Taking a NRA summer gunsmithing class might save you a lot of time. It will tell you whether gunsmithing is for you and point you in the right direction or you might find out that its not for you and you can get on with the rest of your life.

[SScott]

Yup-Lassen Community College-Susanville.

[AAShooter]

I believe the Lassen Community College Gunsmithing program is set up with one and two week classes year around now. A few years back they had the NRA gunsmithing program that was one and two week classes but now they do it year around.

When I took a gunsmithing class a few years ago as part of the NRA gunsmithing program, I stayed in the dorm's on campus, bought the campus meal plan and took a week long class. I think the whole thing ran less than $200 for the week including lodging and meals.

[Gunsmithing]

The hard part is finding a job as a gunsmith
Check with your city for self emploment be for going to school

Dave

Hi All,

I'm doing some research on Gunsmithing as a new trade.

Are there any working gunsmiths on this board that could offer information on becoming a trained gunsmith?

Are there any colleges in SO. Cal that have reputable training programs?

How did you get started?

Is an apprenticeship required to become a skilled gunsmith? If so do you have recommendations on obtaining apprentice work?

Are the working conditions generally good?

Any "does" and "don'ts" that are important for a newcomer to the trade?

What does the job market look like to you?

What is a reasonable expectation for wages / salary to start out?

Any other words of wisdom you have the offer

Much thanks in advance

Weekender

[CRTguns]

tool and die does not hurt either.

there's work in a full time dedicated smithing shop, like Bolsa in socal (asshats) or JG in sacramento- OK guys. then there's smithing in a retail shop, or custom shop. totally different skillsets required. different work environments.

1st, ask a local smith if you can shadow him at work for a day or 2. You may be convinced it's not for you. In fact, if you still want to do it, after trying it out for a day, you may be mentally challenged.

[Bob Hostetter]

Once again, depending on the type of work you want to do, you might want to spend a couple of years perfecting your skills on a mill, lathe, and Tig welder before you even begin thinking about becoming a gunsmith.

[Weekender]

Thanks

Thanks all for the advise.

I'll look into the NRA class and check out the program in Susanville.

Best

Weekender.

[NeoWeird]

tool and die does not hurt either.

there's work in a full time dedicated smithing shop, like Bolsa in socal (asshats) or JG in sacramento- OK guys. then there's smithing in a retail shop, or custom shop. totally different skillsets required. different work environments.

1st, ask a local smith if you can shadow him at work for a day or 2. You may be convinced it's not for you. In fact, if you still want to do it, after trying it out for a day, you may be mentally challenged.

Ain't that the truth. I thought it would be the bee's knees and was going to be my life's calling. Did what I could with where I was (SoCal) and went though some classes in machining, tool and die, etc and even started to pick up a couple types of welding. I got work in a machine shop and studied every reference I could find on the types of firearms I wanted to work on. Once I felt confident I started doing small stuff as a favor for a local shop and Holy ****ing **** the people you deal with kill that dream faster than you can blink and all for the sake of saving a couple extra bucks or getting you to pay for something they should have known about - that or flat out lying to your face to call you a liar or thief or whatever else it is.

To the OP, I will give you advice as it pertained to me but I will also say that no two people are going to experience anything in this field the same. So don't be discouraged and don't be fooled - it may or may not work for you and it's more based on you than anything else. You have to try it first.

That said, the need for a master gunsmith is going the way of the dinosaur. Don't get me wrong, they are needed and will be as long as guns exist, but it's hard to 'jump into it' without having a mentor to lead the way. My advice is, as other's have said, find somewhere to get your feet wet. Contact a local smith and help him around his shop. If you do well you might be able to apprentice with him and eventually take over. You may find customers suck - which they do (not all of them, but the bad ones kill it for the good ones). You might find you like the one off custom work and it may fit you perfectly. You may find you like production and wan't to go into the manufacturing end of things. Then again you may want to go the middle ground and do a niche market and do psuedo production custom work like long range rifles or belt feds.

Knowing what didn't work for me and what did work, I'll say this - find an area you love and become great at that area as opposed to moderately good at everything. It's hard to make anything beyond a career out of being a gunsmith, but those people who do one type of work and do *****in' work seem to be happier, more successful, and have it easier. Find your passion, and excell at it, and the work will come to you only it won't feel like work and you'll be happy and enjoy what you do.

[dw1784]

you might want to spend a couple of years perfecting your skills on a mill, lathe, and Tig welder before you even begin thinking about becoming a gunsmith.

tool and die does not hurt either.

tool maker here, not a gunsmith.

To the OP, you'll need to learn the basic shop skills and that just requires time on the job. Here in socal, try ntma for a training location nearest you. Once you've become a journeyman you can go anywhere you like. Chasing threads and truing up action is no different whether it's a rifle barrel or engine part. Jigs and fixtures maybe different but tooling/setup and machining will be the same.

on a side note, socal supplies a lot of tooling for the firearm industries, one of the few who still pride on using American made tools.

good luck OP.

[NeoWeird]

Not trying to bash the place, but I would avoid NTMA at all costs unless you're looking for just getting a job and don't really care what you're doing. With the half-dozen people who have come from NTMA to work at the shop I work at, and the four guys sent from our shop to go there, all they seem to do there is teach you to push buttons on a CNC mill. Not sure if it's part of the training, but they ALL come out with the same lies (X number years experience, worked in aerospace or medical industry, supervised X number of people doing production with them, etc) - not sure if the lies is from NTMA teaching you how to pad your resume or if it's just the way of the world but they all came out the same. The guys from our shop went to learn basic CNC skills and that's what they got and nothing more (one guy was even telling me how the teacher would ask him questions every day because he used the same program at our job and the teacher had no work experience with it - just a training course).

Nothing against them; if you're looking for a future job in manufacturing it's probably a great place to go. On the other hand, if you're trying to pick up the skill set of a true machinist your local community colleges and even some high schools are probably your best bet. I know Valley Community College in San Bernardino has a decent machining department, as well as tool and die, blueprint reading, CNC, etc and they even have a full welding department. They are linked with Fontana High and they do a lot of work and training to get people from high school to jobs in the industry as well as people just looking or something different.

The Journyman's cards are all but gone now; I've heard back east they are still used but out here not so much. NIMS is a rough equivalent but it's more certification in a specific area as opposed to the profession. You can get several certs through Valley and I THINK NTMA offers it as well though I've yet to see anyone whose gone there present one or metion it so I'm not sure how much they press it. I've got two and I can honestly say it didn't help me get my job, BUT I went in for a position no one else wanted or could do and had there been other people it would have only helped me.

All that said, DW1784 is right - the only way to really learn is hands on. You're going to have to get your hands dirty. I've basically got a half dozen certs for machining, tool and die, etc and I learned more in my first 3 weeks of work than in my whole 3 years of school. Case in point, there wasn't even a steady rest in the shop when I went to school and our tightest tolerance was +/-.003; day one on the job and they ask me to setup a piece 12' long, center drill it, and bore the center true within .001" or less of the OD. Ahhh the easy days...