Machining tools

[felderthewelder]

I am getting interested in getting some machining equipment both for my profession and for some gunsmithing. I wanted to know if anyone can tell me: are those 3 in 1 lathe mill drill press machines good enough for that purpose? I know that they aren't as good as seperate machines but I don't have a lot of space and as long as it can hold tolerances and work well I would be okay with it.

Thanks

[gunboat]

I have not had good experiences with them -- I suppose it depends on what you want to make and what kind of tolerances you need-
My experience was with a austrian model, forget the name, and the basic problem was the saddle gibbs needed to be tightened down when milling to prevent chatter, then were too tight for turning and had to be loosened -- a bit of bother --
I think with a bit of creativity a small lathe and mill could be fit in very little additional space.
However lots of folks like their "smitty" -- my ha-penny

[bridgeport]

The whole point of machining is precision, and as William Ruger stated, precision begets more precision. To that end, 3 in 1 machines are almost useless. I say almost, only in that a capable hand can wrangle something out of almost anything, but that's really another story altogether.
That being said, there is a company called "shopmaster USA" that makes a unit called the "patriot" and in my opinion it is the best 3 in 1 I have ever
seen. I think they used to call it the "bridge Mill". In any case you can go to the shopmaster website and look at the info.

[Chaparral]

I've a 9x20 bulldog and one of those Harbor Freight mini-mills. Both hold to half a tenth easily. I got separate lathe and mill because setup just takes to darn long with a 3 in one, especially with the moderately heavy usage I give mine. The two units together only take up about 24 inches by 72 inches of floor space with storage for extra chucks, rotary tables, vises etc underneath in the cabinet/stands.

There's an outfit in Pasadena called Littlemachineshop.com that sells aftermarket doodads for the little machines. They're very helpful and have got some pretty neat stuff.

[ar15barrels]

In machine tools, quality and precision are often determined by the weight.
The heavier the machine, the less it will vibrate.
The heavier the machine, the heavier a cut you can make before the vibration causes the cut to be unsatisfactory.

Just like gun safes, buy a much bigger machine than you think you need.
I have a 12x36 lathe and often wish I had got a 13x40 instead.
I'm sure that if I had a 13x40 I would be wanting a 16x50 for something...

[eaglemike]

I've a 9x20 bulldog and one of those Harbor Freight mini-mills. Both hold to half a tenth easily. I got separate lathe and mill because setup just takes to darn long with a 3 in one, especially with the moderately heavy usage I give mine. The two units together only take up about 24 inches by 72 inches of floor space with storage for extra chucks, rotary tables, vises etc underneath in the cabinet/stands.

There's an outfit in Pasadena called Littlemachineshop.com that sells aftermarket doodads for the little machines. They're very helpful and have got some pretty neat stuff.

Half a tenth? In machinist talk this means 1/2 of .0001", or .00005" - and I'm ummm, somewhat incredulous. If you can really do that, you are indeed are miracle worker and I bow down to you. I've been in the business for more than 30 years, have CNC machines worth a lot of money, a pretty good reputation for producing quality stuff, and I can't do that.

Could I see some of your work?

For the OP, plan on spending at least 3X what you think you can spend. Every $ you spend now can save you headaches later, if you buy wisely. Most people that are serious about metalwork don't even think about the 3-in-1 stuff.

all the best,
Mike

[ar15barrels]

Half a tenth?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the 4th digit on his chi-com calipers, the one that changes between 5 and 0.

[Chaparral]

Whoops! I'm being stoopid. Half a thousandth or five tenths!! Good thing I was loafing around on Calguns instead of trying to make something that night!

and no, the calipers are 30 yr old Staretts I inherited from my dad. Got a harbor freight one that isn't that bad tho. Got other no-name chi-com ones that don't hold up from some outfit in Ohio. Avoid no-name chicom crap if you can. If you can't, be prepared to upgrade to waaay more expensive stuff as your requirements and skill levels evolve. If it takes you 15 years to accumulate the tools you end up needing on a shoestring budget, well, welcome to the club then. The nice thing about the measuring, inspection and layout stuff is that the wife won't recognize it as being a recent purchase when it shows up in your Kennedy kit...unlike that Saiga 12 I've been drooling over which would be hard to sneak past her.


Randall is right on size. You will want a bigger machine before long. My dad always used to say get the biggest that you can afford not just with the machines but with all the other tooling as well and you will find that you "grow" into them over time.

[bridgeport]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the 4th digit on his chi-com calipers, the one that changes between 5 and 0.

Yes but you see those chi com calipers are made to work with the chi-com
machines....

[38super]

3 in 1 machines can produce quality parts, it depends on the operator. Often the machine limitations will require creative part holding. As will all machinery, you will make your own tooling. About the only recourse for an area limited work area. So what can be done? Compensators, 1911 reverse plugs, guide rods, barrel frame cuts, mag wells, speed holster locking device, Bomar cuts, slide serrations, 80% frame builds, drill guides for Ruger Mk II & 10/22 weaver rails, 1911 reddot mounts, custom Buckmark CeeMore mounts and a few flat lenses for my kid's science experiments.
It depends on your creative thinking and problem solving skills. I was lucky, a fellow shooter/mentor was a master model maker at a top satellite company.

[asheron2]

The 3 in 1 machines work very very good if you throw some DRO on them, then the whole accuracy thing is out the window(besides machine flex)

[eaglemike]

Sure, you can get by with a 3-in-1 if you have limited room. BUT (a big one) if you ever use decent stuff like used in a real machine shop, you'll likely not want to use the 3-in-1.

Yes, I know a lot of stuff can be done on them. It will take longer, in some cases a lot longer.

I purchased a 16 X 40 fairly heavy lathe when I started up, and I've never wished for a smaller one. OTOH, as Randall noted, he sometimes wishes for a little larger machine, or so it seems......

all the best,
Mike

[38super]

asheron2 has a point, machine rigidity and mass governs material removal. Continuous heavy hogging will wear any machine.

A side note, just remachined the brake flange on a Katana rear rim to fit my plated dirtbike. Had to remove the 3 jaw chuck for part clearance. Also made an offset adapter to fit DRZ brake rotors to a Katana front rim.

I've not invested in DRO, yet.

[bollero]

WOW that shopmaster machine looks sweet.. I'm sold.. we can finish 80% receivers.. i might drop some change on one of these machine because i can't afford 50k plus price tag for a large CNC..

[eaglemike]

I've seen running CNC knee mills go for less than $8K...... These are more than capable of completing a lower.

$25K plus shipping would get you a VERY nice CNC machining center, used, but VERY nice!

all the best,
Mike