1911 Sear Jig

[rhbanjo]

Hopefully someone here has had this problem before and I can learn from their experiences. I understand one of the keys to trigger pull/ crispness is stoning the parts with a sear jig. In the Brownells catalog they have jigs from 40 bucks up to a couple of hundred dollars. My question is 1- will this type of tool help me attain the optimum trigger or 2- would I be better buying a new sear set from one of the CNC guys like ed brown or wilson? The trigger pull is "heavy" and maybe the answer isn't just one thing. The gun is a new Charles Daly ERS 1911 .45.
Thanks for any info or help.

[kendog4570]

A jig will definitley help produce a good trigger. If you are just going to do one, then it would be better to pay a pistol smith to do it. Otherwise, if you want to learn how, then get the tools and go for it. I use a Power series 1 jig and have had good results with it. With any of them a good understanding of trigger function is neccessary and also good mechanical ability helps. None of them are fool proof! A lot of reference material is available to help guide you through it. Be prepared to spend twice as much (or more) for the tooling as you would for the trigger job if you were to have it done. It wouldn't hurt to get a book or two before you start. Kuhnhausens book has a lot of information in it. Be sure you prove the trigger before loading up a full magazine. Things can get exiting (and downright dangerous) if it doubles!
The drop-in parts are only as good as the dimensional integrity of your frame. If the hammer and sear pin holes are in the right place and parallel then everything will work out fine. If you are doing just the one gun, that might be the place to start.

[77bawls]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't trigger pull adjusted by the finger spring? Couldn't you lighten the pull without messing with the sear?

[rhbanjo]

I don't know- that's why I'm asking. I'm not only looking for just a light trigger pull. I could probably do that with the spring but I'm looking for a smooth pull also. From what I've read the sear is a key part of the trigger and hammer assy. This is a gun made in the Phillapines not a Colt- some of the parts look like they were made with a file. One of the reasons for buying this is to learn without it breaking the bank with a high end gun.

[SDJim]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't trigger pull adjusted by the finger spring? Couldn't you lighten the pull without messing with the sear?

Yes but trigger weight is only half of a good trigger job. On a target pistol (or rifle), you want to pre-load the trigger (take up the slack) and when it breaks it should feel like a glass rod breaking instead of feeling the pieces grating against each other.

Some people prefer a little bit of a "Roll Trigger" where you feel some slight movement of the trigger prior to breaking but that gets into the area of personal preference.

What stoning the surfaces of the sear and hammer does is gets rid of the machine marks (and a few other things you can read about) so there are sharp edges causing a clean break.

On the Brownells website there is a do-it-yourself section where it talks about how to do a trigger job on a 1911 trigger and using the stoning fixture.

In my experiance, every gunsmith I personally know that works on BE .45's(which includes the guys that come out from Crane, IN to support the Navy Matches) have one of the Brownell's fixtures on their workbench.

YMMV

[TMC]

To add to what SDJim said, the spring and smoothness creates only part of the resistance, the other part comes from the angles of the contact surfaces on the hammer hooks and sear. The best example you may be able to experience yourself is on just about any out of the box mil-spec AR trigger. On 90% of the ones I've messed as you pull the trigger slowly you can actually fell the trigger pulling the hammer back before the hammer falls because of the angles of the contact surfaces. On a 1911 the issue is the same only is much smaller scale, getting the hammer and sear angles just right so when you pull the trigger all you have to do is slide the sear off the hooks without the sear angle causing you to have to lift the hammer first. Its a delicate place to get to, on one side you have a heavy trigger and on the other you have one that follows or worse goes full auto. Sear Jigs get you 90% of the way there but because of tiny variations in frame pin locations it can take a bit finesse to get that 1.5lb or less trigger that will go 100,000 rounds

[Bob Hostetter]

I really shouldn't get involved in this but...

1) stoning the face of the sear is only part of the process. the first thing you need to do the stone the hammer hooks to smooth them out, to ensure they are at 90 degree's, and to set their depth.
2) once that is done you can move to the sear where you want to clean up and smooth out the engagement surfaces and by changing the two angles you can further control the depth of engagement. You can also set the overall length of the sear to control or eliminate over cocking of the hammer. Depending on how you want to trigger to feel you can either put a knife edge on the sear or round it slightly.
3) once this is completed you can start looking at sear spring pressures to set the final weight of the trigger pull.
4) This of course assumes that you have already stoned/polished all contact areas on the hammer, sear, trigger bow, pin's, and hammer strut to eliminate any issues there.

A sear jig is like a dremel. It can, properly used, improve the quality or shootability of a firearm, but it also can destory parts extremely fast. To do 1911/2011 triggers properly you will will a good sear AND hammer jig, several extra fine stones, a magnifying glass, and a good understanding of how to move enagement points on the sear face.

On the other hand you can buy a Cylinder and Slide Ultra Light trigger kit and as long as the pin holes are in the proper location drop in a 3 lbs trigger that will break fairly cleanly.

Good luck and have fun but be careful.....

[rhbanjo]

Wow- thanks for all the information! I found some good stuff on m1911.org too. They have lots of tutorials. Bob- Thanks a lot for the good info. Since I have trouble sawing a straight line on a peice of plywood- I'm leaning heavily on your suggestion on Cylinder & Slide. This is a gun I got to set up for SASS shooting (Pike category) so I didn't want to go overboard and get something I'd fret over getting a scratch or two. I don't need a 1.5 lb trigger pull. In fact a 4 lbs is fine. Thanks to everyone for their input! Good information.

[kendog4570]

I don't need a 1.5 lb trigger pull. In fact a 4 lbs is fine. Thanks to everyone for their input! Good information.

A crisp 3-1/2 or 4lb. pull is better than a 1-1/2 lb inconsistent, sloppy one. Good luck

[motorhead]

stoning/fitting will many times helps massively. i've seen some really f/u sears and disconnectors. (i once looked through a whole box at del mar to find a good disc.) as someone stated earlier, a new finger spring will lighten your pull. i got mine from midway. i can't remember, but i think it was ed brown. it has shaved leaves to specifically lighten the pull. made a world of difference.