*range report with 5 shot group* ak lower rail placement problem

[SJgunguy24]

How are you going to brake up the metal?

[SKSer]

How are you going to brake up the metal?

What do you mean? Make the bends?

Im using this method to make the bends, I allready made the jig. I Welded two pieces of steel on the bottom of the angle Iron, holding the angle iron at exactly 34mm apart. The piece of flat steel that will go inside the reciever is exactly 32mm, which is the same size as my trunions and the reciever is 1mm thick. Also im not sure if everyone knew this, but the top rails are allready bent so that is why it is possible to pre fit everything.

http://www.newsbleed.com/documents/grasshopper_jig_gunco.pdf

[Alexthewelder]

good luck. not that it cant be done but thats like installing the exhaust on the engine and then puting the engine in the car. the rails should have stayed off till you were done.
this is when thinking outside of the box could potentially ruin your build. good luck again


edit: Im sorry dude, I dont want to offend you , but that is horrible bro. Ive been sitting here looking at this after making my post and I just cant see why or what possesed you to attempt doing it this way. The top guides are already cut for ease, not so that you can install the rails before everything else. the tack welds are bad and not well placed. what you've done here is made yourself a sh** sandwich, and now you have to eat it...

where are you located? I'm having a build party the first week of dec. ... you should come. lots of cool cal gunners and plenty of information! heres the link:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=232749

[SKSer]

good luck. not that it cant be done but thats like installing the exhaust on the engine and then puting the engine in the car. the rails should have stayed off till you were done.
this is when thinking outside of the box could potentially ruin your build. good luck again


edit: Im sorry dude, I dont want to offend you , but that is horrible bro. Ive been sitting here looking at this after making my post and I just cant see why or what possesed you to attempt doing it this way. The top guides are already cut for ease, not so that you can install the rails before everything else. the tack welds are bad and not well placed. what you've done here is made yourself a sh** sandwich, and now you have to eat it...

where are you located? I'm having a build party the first week of dec. ... you should come. lots of cool cal gunners and plenty of information! heres the link:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=232749

Thats ok, I take criticism well. I didnt originally think that welding the rails on flat was the proper way to go, or was the reason they pre bent the upper rails. With my first build, I bent, then tried to rosette weld, which didnt work out well then I had to re-finish, re-drill, and re-weld, and the outter reciever looked hammered. As far as the thought that this isnt going to work, (this isnt just directed toward you but everyone who doesnt think this works,or is the wrong way) I HAVE ALLREADY DONE THIS BEFORE, ABSOLUTELY 100% SUCCESFULLY with my second build. With my second build the rails were paralell with the top rail, but I had to modify the rail holes, the only reason I posted the question is to find out if it mattered if the rails were paralell or not, so I didnt have to modify the rail holes. As far as the welds, I mean minus the little nipple at the end of the extractor rail (its allready gone because I removed the rails to re-locate) these tack welds have full penetration, and are 100 times more then sufficient for their purpose. Of course the welds may not look pretty, they are easily just as strong as
spot welds, as far as placement of the welds seeing how the rails dont really have to support any downward force and are merely just guide rails, placement doesnt really matter. In the end, as far as the esthetics, the reciever will look great from the outside. I appreciate the offer for the build party but I have everything I need to build allready, jigs, modded bolt cutters, acetelyne torch, etc. Ive worked as a mechanic professional for a short period of time and for years doing custom work out of my garage, ive also worked in a steel fabrication shop, and one thing ive learned is there is always more then one way to skin a cat.

[MrNiceGuy]

There's more than one way to bend a flat.
Hell, I've seen one bent where they just beat the flat in the jig with a big hammer, came out fine.
So if you want to use the pulled method, more power to you.

But I will say the pre-drilled holes (like Tapco flats) very rarely line up exactly.
I'd use AK builder flats since those holes are not pre-drilled (not saying Tapco flats can't be built, I've done a Tapco flat AK and it runs fine).

You might want to consider this tool from AK Builder, I haven't tried it yet though.

[SKSer]

There's more than one way to bend a flat.
Hell, I've seen one bent where they just beat the flat in the jig with a big hammer, came out fine.
So if you want to use the pulled method, more power to you.

But I will say the pre-drilled holes (like Tapco flats) very rarely line up exactly.
I'd use AK builder flats since those holes are not pre-drilled (not saying Tapco flats can't be built, I've done a Tapco flat AK and it runs fine).

You might want to consider this tool from AK Builder, I haven't tried it yet though.

that is a sweet little tool, Yea I use the akparts.com flats and so far the front trunion, trigger and hammer pin holes have always been good. The guide rail holes and the rear trunion holes are usually a little off but very easy to fix.

[croc4]

sks'er, you might also consider silver soldering the rails, my first flat was spot welded, but came to find there was a problem with one of them, I was able to pop it off with a screw driver without much hassle. Not having a spot welder, I gave soldering it a go, on a test flat I couldn't pop them off to save my life. From that point I was sold. Have fired 80rnds through it so far without and sign of movement/cracking. I know this is not helping with your issue at hand, but I'm guessing you welded them on the pre-bent flat because its easier?.

Croc4

[SKSer]

sks'er, you might also consider silver soldering the rails, my first flat was spot welded, but came to find there was a problem with one of them, I was able to pop it off with a screw driver without much hassle. Not having a spot welder, I gave soldering it a go, on a test flat I couldn't pop them off to save my life. From that point I was sold. Have fired 80rnds through it so far without and sign of movement/cracking. I know this is not helping with your issue at hand, but I'm guessing you welded them on the pre-bent flat because its easier?.

Croc4

thanks for the advice, I have a mig welder so I usually tack weld them, it holds really well. If you seen the picture at the begining of the thread, I allready removed those rails to re-weld on. I cut about 80% through the welds and I still could not pry them off. The silver soldering probably looks great though in comparison to the tack welds. Yes, I find it alot easier to line the rails up with the trunion and weld them with it still flat. With my first build, I bent, then lined up the rails, tried to rosette weld them and it made the outside look terrible, then I was trying to weld with the tip of the mig through the mag hole, and through the top at all funky angles and found very difficult to get good clean welds. Im not against build parties or nothing but i just like working out of my garage at my own pace, working on it for 15-20 minutes at a time on random days when I get a chance. Im married with kids and we always have something going on, so its hard to commit to something that would require driving and a whole day, especially when its usually only one day, and it takes several months for another to come up. I could spend three months waiting for the one day and then not be able to go. Plus I allready have most of tools that you need to build, modded bolt cutters, press, drill press,mig welder, oxy/acetelyne torch, files etc. I have everything really minus the standard bending jig, and a spot welder. Thats why I use a mig welder and I built this pull through jig.

[JAGGUY]

I know what you mean about working at your own pace @ your own place!
On my first builds I brazed the lower rails on after it was bent. Very easy to do when bent and a good braze is stronger than spot welding. Still working after countless rounds fired. There are lots of ways to do it yourself, and if done well they work well.
-greg

[SKSer]

here is the finished product... (sorry the focus on my camera is JACKED) but you get the general idea...

showing trunion to flat fitting...


aligning and welding on left lower rail...


aligning and welding on right lower rail...


rails installed and rail holes egged to match reciever holes, as well as cleaning up some of the welds for bending purposes.

continued below....

[SKSer]

setting up the bending jig...


I didnt take pics while bending due to I used a ton of grease and had it all over my hands and my wife was asleep. I had one problem during the process. I was using 1/4" all thread as the pull bolts, and they were just not strong enough to start the bend, I actually ended up snapping one. I didnt have any other all thread on hand and it was 1:00 in the morning and I was ready to bend this puppy. I have a HF pipe bender that can sometimes be used as a press,(very limited pressing area) so I used this to start about 10% of the bend, then used the 1/4" all thread to pull It the rest of the way through. If anyone goes this way just use larger bolts and it will pull it through.

here is a side view of the finished product, that is my pipe bender in the back, me and my buddies call it the "Ghetto bender"...


left rail line up...


right rail line up...


down the rear...


rails line up perfect, holes line up perfect, and did a mag fit test, was perfect (with these flats the mag has always fit perfect)

if anyone is interested in more info on this process, send me a PM

[uxo2]

You diffenatly have taken a DIFFERENT route for building..


Not one I will ever approach but I can atleast say..


Yes...I actually saw a tread about a guy building
an AK his way instead of the tried and true.

[JamesY]

Does the bolt carrier and bolt slide in and out smoothly? Maybe it's just me but the lower rails look a little low.

[SKSer]

If you guys thought my bending deal was a** backwards, your really gonna love this....

heres me pressing the barrel back in the trunion using the all thread method... I froze the barrel overnight and heated the trunion in the oven, man it made a HUGE difference, its was very smoothly pulled back in the trunion...




why in the world would I do it this way you ask? a couple of reasons, 1st and foremost, If you press too far, like I just did, its very easy to push it back the other way and line it up. 2nd I rivet using the barrel as a bucking bar by pre-shaping the rivet shafts with a dremmel so they crush the way I want them to. i have modded bolt cutters so i could do it the standard way, but if you push to far and the pin doesnt line up, its a mother F**cker to push it back with the reciever all built.

heres a pick of me pushing it back the other way...


heres a pick of her all lined up... and petes wicked ale strawberry blonde, my fav beer.


here is her un riveted and half put together...

[SKSer]

Does the bolt carrier and bolt slide in and out smoothly? Maybe it's just me but the lower rails look a little low.

I know the picture of that rail looks waaaay low, but it is just the picture. They are lined up perfect. if you look at the line where the rail meets the reciever and the line of the trunion you can see they are lined up. As you see in the pic above I C-clamped the trunions in place and put in the boltcarrier assembly and sping and it slides in and out of battery perfect.