not in service

[kcstott]

I'll leave the full add up for posterity

THIS SERVICE IS NOT BEING OFFERED ANY LONGER, YOU WAITED TO LONG I WILL NOT BE RUSHED AT THE LAST MINUTE DUE TO YOUR LAZINESS HAVE A GOOD ONE.


I finally got the pantograph set up to the point where I am confident in the quality of work produced. Thanks to reorgeretsin for the push to get this done and another good customer of mine to get in the ball and get it done

If you want images, logos or other forms of engraving I'm going to say go see VaderSpade. I have the ability to trace an image but I'd rather not with a hand controlled machine it's far to easy to make a mistake.

As for the typical legal markings I can do standard block letters as small as .093" tall. On a 1911 I can lay out three line of text just ahead of the grip and just behind the slide lock pin hole.
I can do one long line of text or two or three lines in this area so long at the name and city are not to long.

For example,
Maker name, model, city state, s/n xxx2
Or
Maker, model
City, state
s/n xxx2
Or
Maker, model, city state
s/n xxx2

These can be laid out left right or centered

Cost is $50 per frame/receiver. If you show up with more than one frame/ receiver I'll provide a discount for each additional frame or receiver.
Additional lines of text up to 20ish characters per line $10 additional

I'll do a test plate tonight to give an idea of what it looks like.

All frames receivers need to be stripped
As of right no I can do 1911's. Matrix sig frames, and AR lowers
I can only engrave on a reasonably flat area due to how my engraver controls depth.
All other frames and lowers will be on a case by case basis

[MosinVirus]

I would have figured you surely had a CNC outfitted mill.

Are there any laser engraver services in your area? They usually charge less, can do images, on any surfaces, etc.

Or is this a situation where you made the pantograph?
Just trying to understand the reason.

[kcstott]

I would have figured you surely had a CNC outfitted mill.

Are there any laser engraver services in your area? They usually charge less, can do images, on any surfaces, etc.

Or is this a situation where you made the pantograph?
Just trying to understand the reason.

No room for a CNC
Bought the pantograph. Finally got it set up. I bought it for my own guns that I will not be registering but need to mark.

Engravers down here don't want to touch a gun anymore. At least the ones I dealt with.
Never seen a laser shop down here. That and typical laser engravers can't do full depth legal data. You need a much more expensive laser for that. As for cost, the last time I had someing engraved, it was about the same lines of text and cost me $50 so that's where I'm basing my cost.

That and I'm not going to sit on your parts for months, not answer the phone or email, not like that shop in OC that got a bad rap.

The reason? Clock is ticking, your stuff needs to be marked soon. And your stuff will need to be marked from here on after. So I'm down here in north Mexico supporting my area.

[MosinVirus]

I understand. Was just thinking that if you don't have a good laser engraver around you may want to look into it. You will not have competition.

Around me there are laser engravers that can cut to any depth you want, including all the way through if needed. $25 per frame for legal markings.

[kcstott]

I understand. Was just thinking that if you don't have a good laser engraver around you may want to look into it. You will not have competition.

Around me there are laser engravers that can cut to any depth you want, including all the way through if needed. $25 per frame for legal markings.

Yeah If i had the money or credit to do so I would . problem is the time required to get the engraving done, Burning steel takes time with a affordable and even a not so affordable laser. Customers may not want to wait.

that requires an FFL then, and National city will not allow that in a garage.

[swell1957]

Yeah If i had the money or credit to do so I would . problem is the time required to get the engraving done, Burning steel takes time with a affordable and even a not so affordable laser. Customers may not want to wait.

that requires an FFL then, and National city will not allow that in a garage.

If one is "in the business" of engraving firearms it requires an FFL regardless of the customer being present. I would tread cautiously.
The recent DOJ regulations give a false sense that it's okay to take firearms anywhere to be engraved. ATF has a different opinion. This may be one reason why "engravers in your area won't touch firearms."

[kcstott]

If one is "in the business" of engraving firearms it requires an FFL regardless of the customer being present. I would tread cautiously.
The recent DOJ regulations give a false sense that it's okay to take firearms anywhere to be engraved. ATF has a different opinion. This may be one reason why "engravers in your area won't touch firearms."

There are engravers with FFL's in my area that won't touch a lower anymore.

I'm going to cherry pick a bit

Performing a cosmetic process or activity, such as camouflaging, that primarily adds to or changes the appearance or decoration of a firearm is not manufacturing. Unlike manufacturing processes that primarily enhance a firearm's durability, camouflaging is primarily cosmetic. Likewise, external engravings are cosmetic in nature and primarily affect only the appearanceof a firearm.

Held, any person who engages in an activity or process that primarily adds to or changes a firearm's appearance by camouflaging the firearm by painting, dipping, or applying tape does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.
Heldfurther, any person who engages in an activity or process that primarily adds to or changes a firearm's appearanceby engraving the external surface of the firearm does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.
Heldfurther, any person who is licensed as a dealer, which includes a gunsmith, and who camouflages or engraves firearms as described in this ruling does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.
Heldfurther, any person who is engaged in the businessprincipal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms.


I make a whopping $2000 a year threading a few barrels, cutting a few slides, and making a few obsolete parts. I'm not in this for livelihood, It's more like beer and pizza money at best, I would be if i could but I don't have the time,

[MosinVirus]

I will be moving to a different county so I can get a home based FFL. I think 01 is what I need.

[swell1957]

There are engravers with FFL's in my area that won't touch a lower anymore.

I'm going to cherry pick a bit

Performing a cosmetic process or activity, such as camouflaging, that primarily adds to or changes the appearance or decoration of a firearm is not manufacturing. Unlike manufacturing processes that primarily enhance a firearm's durability, camouflaging is primarily cosmetic. Likewise, external engravings are cosmetic in nature and primarily affect only the appearanceof a firearm.

Held, any person who engages in an activity or process that primarily adds to or changes a firearm's appearance by camouflaging the firearm by painting, dipping, or applying tape does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.
Heldfurther, any person who engages in an activity or process that primarily adds to or changes a firearm's appearanceby engraving the external surface of the firearm does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.
Heldfurther, any person who is licensed as a dealer, which includes a gunsmith, and who camouflages or engraves firearms as described in this ruling does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.
Heldfurther, any person who is engaged in the businessprincipal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms.


I make a whopping $2000 a year threading a few barrels, cutting a few slides, and making a few obsolete parts. I'm not in this for livelihood, It's more like beer and pizza money at best, I would be if i could but I don't have the time,

Good summary. Agreed that you don't need a manufacturers license, ATF confirms that as well. DOJ regs say to go to an 07FFL for engraving (but it can be done by an 01 as well).
"In the business" is up to interpretation. I believe it's intentionally vague for just that reason, so "they" can prosecute if so desired.

[swell1957]

I will be moving to a different county so I can get a home based FFL. I think 01 is what I need.

It really comes down to who owns the firearm/frame/receiver you are working on.
In general, if the business "owns" it and is modifying, assembling, etc. to sell then it's an 07, i.e. Manufacturing
If a customer owns the firearm and the business is modifying, assembling, etc. for the customer it's an 01.
There are exceptions and some interpret it differently, so you have to research on your own.

This is not legal advice!

Keep in mind that once you're an 07 you get into a whole different level of scrutiny with the state dept, ITAR, etc.

[kcstott]

Good summary. Agreed that you don't need a manufacturers license, ATF confirms that as well. DOJ regs say to go to an 07FFL for engraving (but it can be done by an 01 as well).
"In the business" is up to interpretation. I believe it's intentionally vague for just that reason, so "they" can prosecute if so desired.

there has been BATFE letters written on what they consider " in the business of" and yes this is the same agency that changes it mind as much as the days of the week. so it's only a good defense today.

Technically I can't mount scope to a gun without an 01 license. The muzzle brake work, barrel threading, trigger installs all the simple stuff that I do no one cares about.

Here's what will happen,

I'll engrave my six firearms and a few spare receivers that need numbers in accordance with the new state law,

I may have one or two guys actually take me up on the engraving, then it will all dry up.

I bought this pantograph to do my stuff because the one shop that was doing the work was charging $50 per frame, well at the amount of weapons i have that need serial numbers, I can justify spending $450 on an old manual pantograph.

This will turn out like the PSL Barrels, Post up a thread say "Hey I can make them"
Then get 347 PM's asking why they aren't $99, Or why they aren't free. Get two real customers, Then find out Curtis Of AK builder is making them for little more than $200 each and he has them in stock. So I guess I need to buy Adjustable gas blocks and make bull barrels out of these and try to recoup my minor investment. that or see if someone needs to Paper patch a .308 or needs a re barrel for a 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53mm.

Not a lot you can do with a .300 bore .310 groove 1:9.5" barrel