Dumb 1911 build question. :D

[Spyder]

So my Caspian slide on Race Ready Recon frame with 460 Rowland barrel and comp and C&S guts is just about ready to do the rust blue process on. Everything functions great by hand, and I shot a few rounds of Rowland through it, with much less recoil than expected and good ejection and function. I've got new TFX sights, brass, Cutting Edge 150 Raptor and 200 solid bullets ready to load, and all of the tools and chemicals and distilled water for the rust blue process, and have taken several pictures along the way with intentions of a build thread when it's done.

The problem comes when I try and shoot 45ACP through it. It fires fine, and recoil is about nonexistent, but it won't eject. The slide won't even move far enough for the round to hit the ejector. I swapped springs to a regular spring out of my old RIA I bought as a learning tool, and it still does it.

I assume I've got a lockup or barrel/slide or barrel/frame fitting problem. Where should I begin looking first? All of my online research thus far just says extractor problem or ejector problem, but I doubt it's either, since the slide doesn't move far enough with 45ACP to affect either.

It acts just like light rounds in a gun with a heavy spring...but I swapped to a lighter spring and it had no change.

[jericho89]

As you said it sounds like a lock up issue. Without looking at it I would assume it is very slight and the Rowland is just muscling it through. You will need to check the locking lug engagement and you may need to change the barrel link.

[pklin1297]

Barrel and comp may shoot fine for higher pressure round in .460 Rowland, but is probably taking too much away from the .45 ACP to function correctly. .45 ACP is not a typical round to use with a comp because it is comparatively a low-pressure round, as opposed to a .38 Super, or a major power factor .40 S&W and/or 9 mm...

If you want it to run with both .460 Rowland and .45 ACP, the recoil spring is not the only thing you should be looking at. What weight of mainspring are you currently running? Can you take a picture of the bottom of your firing pin stop? Both of these serve a purpose to either speed up, or slow down cycle rate. Factory mainspring weight for .45 ACP is 23 lbs., but if you're running a comp., you may have to drop below 20 to have it run. If the bottom of your firing pin stop is either square or only slightly beveled, you may have to put a heavier chamfer on it. However, by speeding up the cycling rate, the higher pressure .460 might start to batter the frame... You'll need to experiment.

[vlady]

As pklin said, check your mainspring. Your slide may not have enough energy with the "lazy" 45acp to push the trigger back.

[Spyder]

Will do when I get home, thanks! ...mainspring is the one that comes in the Cylinder and Slide tactical 3.5 lb trigger kit.

[Spyder]

Ideally I'd like to be able to shoot 45 and 460 from it without swapping more than the recoil spring. I plan on mostly shooting 45, and only shooting 460 for load testing and hunting...and showing off at the range.

[pklin1297]

I understand the comp tames a lot of the recoil from the .460 Rowland (I've seen it being referred to as shooting a 44 Magnum in a 1911 platform), because of this, IMO you can try to make .45 ACP work in the same setup. Otherwise, the .460 Rowland is brutal on cycling rates as is, and making modifications to allow it to fly that slide at your face faster is scary at the very least.

The C&S regular trigger kits include 23-lb. mainsprings. On Midway they list an 18-lb. mainspring for the C&S 4.5 lb. trigger kits which may or may not be true since I can't even find that info on C&S' own website, however, I seem to recall, when I researching the 3.5 lb. kit I have that it came with an 18.5-lb. mainspring. I have used the 18.5 mainsprings in many of my 1911s so I believe it can be the same. Some say you shouldn't use anything less than 19, but like I mentioned, you can use recoil spring and firing pin stop to slow the cycling rate down also.

If the mainspring in your kit is 18.5 lbs. then I would want to see your firing pin stop. If that has a good chamfer to it, then the only other thing is to drop the recoil spring weight some more, or change to a flat spring. But again... you are risking prematurely damaging your pistol when you're shooting .460...

[Spyder]

Great info. I'll figure out my mainspring weight and get a picture of the firing pin stop. May not be today though, I won't be home until fairly late and am working early. Thank you!

[tophatjones]

Have you checked if problem #1 is happening with the Schuemann timing test?

http://www.m1911.org/testkit.htm

[jericho89]

Ok this just came to mind, I had a gold cup with a comp years ago and it was short stroking with 45 acp. I was using 200gn bullets and could load them to max and would have the same issue. I tried a 230gn round nose at standard velocity and it cycled with no issues. I found that the 230gn was the only round that I could shoot through that gun.

[MosinVirus]

I have shot comped .45acp gun once. It worked fine.

From the little reading I have done on the conversions it seems that they should work just fine with .45acp, +P, and super.

The comp is needed to retard the rearward momentum of the slide. The reason the comp is so effective is that there is quite a bit of pressure behind the bullet. With higher pressure, the higher the retardation. .45acp doesn't have as much pressure, so there should be little effectiveness of the comp, which in turn should mean that the slide should not be slowed down as much, even with the comp on.

I would think that a .45acp would cycle a 20# recoil spring, but never tried it. If your recoil spring is 24#, not sure it would.

The fact that your lower power recoil spring is still not allowing the gun to cycle with .45acp is pretty descriptive - recoil spring is not the problem.

Timing test (as suggested above) is in order.
Is the comp supported?

[tr6guns]

https://www.460rowland.com/product/c....avAZPyUe.dpuf
I would start with a 16# recoil spring which is stock and see if that works with the 45

[kcstott]

That coefficient of friction is BS, Stainless typically has a static friction coefficient lower then carbon steel. But there are far more things going on then the what little difference there is between in a friction coefficient and thats if both parts compared have the same Ra surface finish. Surface finish alone will play a bigger roll then what the materials base coefficient is. That is just marking BS trying to sound smarter then they are.

What they should have said was "With our design you should be able to swap recoil springs and shoot 45ACP. if this is not happening for you then you need to be sure you are using full power 45ACP loads and a XX# recoil spring. (I'd say go back to stock 16# and be done) if this still doesn't solve your issue please take your firearm to a reputable pistol smith for examination., Since all 1911's are different and there are minor differences with timing and lockup it is impossible for us to tell you why your pistol with our kit will not function".

But did you read this Crap

How to polish your rails:
- Remove your slide lock pin, remove the slide from your lower receiver, and remove your recoil spring and barrel from your slide. Apply a small amount of heavy grit valve grinding compound to both sets of rails and put your lower receiver and slide back together without any other parts.
- With both sets of rails engaged normally, move your slide over your lower one or two times per second for about 20 mins, applying more compound as you feel may be necessary.
- Clean, oil, clean, oil and clean your gun until it is reasonably clean of heavy grit compound.
- Apply fine grit valve grinding compound and repeat the procedure. Then clean and oil over and over until your gun is clean once more.
- Frequent cleaning may be needed for some time, until all the compound has worked it's way out of your newly smooth running gun.

If you used Heavy valve grinding compound you would not be able to put the slide on your frame,

If you lapped your pistol for 20 minutes you'll ruin your gun. Holy crap WTF are these guys talking about? there is no way on Gods Green earth that anyone should ever do that to a pistol that otherwise functioned fine without their kit.

When i lap a slide it takes about ten minutes with fine compound only. you can ruin the fit of a gun with fine compound. YOU WILL RUIN THE FIT OF YOU GUN WITH HEAVY GRIT COMPOUND

[Spyder]

I used 600 grit for about 3 minutes, don't worry.

I'll mess with it later in the week. Harvesting animals this week. And just bought a 9mm kit for one of my other frames. Damn you people and your disease.

[MosinVirus]

Some time ago, I have been trying to solve the issue of having a 9mm compensated gun run reliably with factory standard 115 grain ammo.

Learned a lot of methods and also believe I kind of understand what the issues may be.

Does the slide have any up/down play at the front?
Does the slide contact the top edged of the dust cover when you cycle it and put downward pressure onto the front of the slide?
When you retract the slide about 1/2" us the hood of the top of the barrel at the chamber side touching the underside of the slide?
When you retract the slide all the way, is the compensator resting on the guide rod?
If it is, can you see if the chamber area of the barrel is sitting down on the barrel seat or is it lifted?

Reason I am asking... and simply from discussing these issues with more knowledgeable people...

The slide can dip down when it is cycling and rub on the top of dust cover (in some cases also inside and on the bottom of dust cover). That could eventually lead to frame cracking at the recoil shoulder, but also is evidence of added friction point.

Compensators are added weight, serving as cantilever. Also they reduce muzzle flip by forcing the front of the gun downward. This can push the front of the slide and barrel down as the slide starts to cycle. Adds to friction in looser assemblies. The barrel may be tilted downward at the front due to the weight of the comp and the hood may be rubbing on the underside of the slide. That adds friction.

Every time you lap your slide you run the risk of opening up the fit. When the slide can move up and down or aide to side, it can bounce inside the rails during its travel. The added front weight of the comp will almost certainly make the rear of the barrel bounce if the comp is not supported at the front my the guide rod.

Look, I may be wrong here, and KC could correct me if I am, but it makes sense to me and I believe that these are all factors to consider. Again, when you replaced the recoil spring in yours, it should have cycled fine if everything else was done correctly. I have shot a friend's comped .45acp and it not only worked fine but was a pleasure to shoot.