Metallurgist in the house?

[MrOrange]

The object at hand is a parts kit from a stainless Ruger MKII. It had a few smaller parts missing, but I thought it was a good deal because it didn't have the barrel stripped from the receiver like most of these do, instead it has a saw cut receiver.

The front end is ~1.8" long with the barrel in situ, and the back end is ~2.2". I figured I could save a lot of work by welding in the missing piece(s), as opposed to fitting the barrel et al that is normally required when building one of these.

So I've been reading up on welding stainless steels in general, which seems doable with the buzz box I have available, my problem is finding out what kind of stainless the factory receiver is made out of. I emailed Ruger, thinking it was in the 410 neighborhood, but they said, and I quote: "The stainless steel is made of 10-40 series."

Now I've heard of 1040 carbon steel, but never heard of stainless being described as anything but a three-digit number, occasionally with a letter suffix. I thought it might be 10% Cr then sumthin else, but all yer basic stainless alloys are at least 11% Cr, with no component @ 40%. Anybody have any ideas what this 10-40 stainless stuff might be?

[kcstott]

I think your grade is a type O

Ruger used to profess 416 investment cast. The other problem you have is you mentioned "buzz box", and that's just one bad way to go. You need a tig

I'd silver braze it befor I buzz box welded it

[MrOrange]

Thanks for the info. As for the cheapo welder, it's what I got. There is a wide selection of stainless rod available out there, and it seems there is quite a bit of variation within the recommended ranges. That is, several different types of alloy can be successfully used on different base metals. Pre & post heating will be done if & when I get there.

Burning rod isn't a problem for me, I'll need some practice before getting to the pistol, but once upon a time I was certified 6G pipe with a stick. Brazing is certainly an option.

[ar15barrels]

When you hear about stainless by just two numbers, it's often the chrome and nickel content. For example, 18-8 is common reference that happens to hit the specs of 303 and 304.

The 10-40 could also mean 10-0.40 or even 10-0.040 as someone really familiar with the alloys might assume you know what they are saying.
Even still, there's no perfect match in common alloys, but ruger can alloy it's own steel in it's foundrys.

[kcstott]

Thanks for the info. As for the cheapo welder, it's what I got. There is a wide selection of stainless rod available out there, and it seems there is quite a bit of variation within the recommended ranges. That is, several different types of alloy can be successfully used on different base metals. Pre & post heating will be done if & when I get there.

Burning rod isn't a problem for me, I'll need some practice before getting to the pistol, but once upon a time I was certified 6G pipe with a stick. Brazing is certainly an option.

Thats all well and good that you can run a bead at that level, Just be advised it's 1" diameter .125" wall. Not the most conducive to stick welding. It can be done but man i'd cut out a receiver from tube before I tried to stick weld one back together.

keep in mind it's a 22LR blow back so it just has to be strong enough to keep itself together. hell JB weld in the right spot would work.

[MrOrange]

When you hear about stainless by just two numbers, it's often the chrome and nickel content. For example, 18-8 is common reference that happens to hit the specs of 303 and 304.

The 10-40 could also mean 10-0.40 or even 10-0.040 as someone really familiar with the alloys might assume you know what they are saying.
Even still, there's no perfect match in common alloys, but ruger can alloy it's own steel in it's foundrys.

Dang, I gotta kick myself for not thinking of that, it seems obvious now!
They certainly wouldn't be limited to whatever they could buy on the market.

Thats all well and good that you can run a bead at that level, Just be advised it's 1" diameter .125" wall. Not the most conducive to stick welding. It can be done but man i'd cut out a receiver from tube before I tried to stick weld one back together.

keep in mind it's a 22LR blow back so it just has to be strong enough to keep itself together. hell JB weld in the right spot would work.

Yeah, that was something I thought about. Between the front lug and the bolt stop pin in the rear, I was thinking you could tie the front & back together with bailing wire & as long as they were aligned well enough it would probably work.

[Dnele928]

I suspect they meant 410 Stainless...just mis spoke. This is a common, general purpose SS alloy, more likely to be used as opposed to some rare exotic type. Using common grades means that the properties are well known and published.

[mumzer]

You need to TiG this with the right stick. you also need to preheat properly or you are likely to have cracks around the Heat Affected Zone. It's only a 22, but worth doing right.

[heidad01]

Im no llurgist of any sort but 1040 is not stainless steel. That is just your basic high carbon steel. Good for hardening/tempering as needed.
Now, if you are looking at stainless and without getting into the foundry specs, 410 and 416 are practically the same thing with 416 being easier machining. Both can be hardened by heat treating.

[croue]

It is a good high carbon steel:

http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6525

Google is your friend.

C

[MrOrange]

- There are more than a few stainless rods for successfully stick welding common stainless alloys, it's at work in the industry and not something I thought up. I do plan to both pre-heat and post-heat. [Just a statement for full disclosure, I can probably stick weld better than a lot of hobbyists can TIG. I've SMAWed corroded sheet metal.]

- As a former welder/fabricator, I am fully aware that there is a carbon steel commonly referred to as 1040 steel. This is a stainless steel gun.

- Ruger specifically stated: "The stainless steel is made of 10-40 series."



Anywho, after much consideration, I'm thinking that the odds this metal is anything outside of the 410 - 430 area is pretty slim. There are rods that will work on anything in that range and beyond, and indeed will work even if the replacement section isn't the same as the receiver metal. Apparently I didn't bookmark where I found the stainless welding info, so I'll have to ferret that out again. Now I'm to the point that I'm obsessed with welding this thing back together, but even if it somehow turns to snit, I can still go the conventional route just having wasted some time and a couple bucks.

The way things are looking now, it'll be a few months before I can get to this project (most likely out of state), but I'll post a new thread on the build (re-build?) with pics and all that.

The more I look at the mechanics of the pistol, I'm convinced I could duct tape the receiver sections in place and have it function. Maybe add a strand of tie wire just for that extra NASA-level redundancy. It's awful tempting...

[kcstott]

- There are more than a few stainless rods for successfully stick welding common stainless alloys, it's at work in the industry and not something I thought up. I do plan to both pre-heat and post-heat. [Just a statement for full disclosure, I can probably stick weld better than a lot of hobbyists can TIG. I've SMAWed corroded sheet metal.]

- As a former welder/fabricator, I am fully aware that there is a carbon steel commonly referred to as 1040 steel. This is a stainless steel gun.

- Ruger specifically stated: "The stainless steel is made of 10-40 series."



Anywho, after much consideration, I'm thinking that the odds this metal is anything outside of the 410 - 430 area is pretty slim. There are rods that will work on anything in that range and beyond, and indeed will work even if the replacement section isn't the same as the receiver metal. Apparently I didn't bookmark where I found the stainless welding info, so I'll have to ferret that out again. Now I'm to the point that I'm obsessed with welding this thing back together, but even if it somehow turns to snit, I can still go the conventional route just having wasted some time and a couple bucks.

The way things are looking now, it'll be a few months before I can get to this project (most likely out of state), but I'll post a new thread on the build (re-build?) with pics and all that.

The more I look at the mechanics of the pistol, I'm convinced I could duct tape the receiver sections in place and have it function. Maybe add a strand of tie wire just for that extra NASA-level redundancy. It's awful tempting...

in your defense I doubt more than three people that posted know what 6G is or how difficult it is to attain that level of certification,

For your amusement i'll just say this about 6G to everyone else that doesn't understand what it is and what it means,

to put it bluntly in a pipe shop if you are interviewed as a welder you are expected to demonstrate your level of skill, this happens in the form of a weld test, Cert's typically don't mean crap and are typically not recognised outside the shop you earned them in. API certs being the exception (I Think).

6G and 6GR are the two top weld certs for API classification, typically with the AWS you need to run a 3G and a 4G weld test plate to get a D 1.1 or other applicable cert. This is a vert up and overhead weld on flat grooved plate, under API allowances in most cases you can test with one test and be certified for all other positions. That's the 6G weld position. it's welding fully around the diameter of the pipe while the pipe is in a fixture at an angle of about 30 to 45 degrees. The 6GR has a restriction welded to the plate to simulate a wall or some other obstruction in your way.

Ever see a welder prep a job buy pulling out a bunch of mirrors on mag bases?? So he can weld the back side of a pipe that is two inches from a bulkhead?? They don't let some rebar yard tweaker weld on that stuff.

i just hope the buzz box is DC and i'll leave it at that.


And just going off of Lincoln's recommendation welding 410 or 416 is a E410 rod or E410NiMo

When i stick weld i typically only run 6010 and 7018 with 7018 being my first choice. I tig weld with ER70S2 or S7, for mild steel, 308L for stainless, and I have two alloy of aluminum rod, At work I filler rod in .015 and .020 for micro welding on H13, P20, 420, seems to be a shame to run a 700 amp machine at 30 amps or less trying to fix a mold.

[God Bless America]

1) go to gunshow
2) buy that miracle brazing rod (next to miracle CA glue and filler, which is next to miracle anti-fog glasses treatment, next to miracle self-sealing tape)
3) report back

[ar15barrels]

That's the 6G weld position. it's welding fully around the diameter of the pipe while the pipe is in a fixture at an angle of about 30 to 45 degrees.
The 6GR has a restriction welded to the plate to simulate a wall or some other obstruction in your way.

Ever see a welder prep a job buy pulling out a bunch of mirrors on mag bases?? So he can weld the back side of a pipe that is two inches from a bulkhead??

While welding cages into demo derby cars, I would run a mig gun or a stick welder blind by just listening to the weld when I could not see it because I was up against the firewall or dash.
The welds all came out great.

[Dnele928]

Plus, after welding, heat treating is needed.