Ed’s Red

[TexasJackKin]

SUBSTITUTE, do any of you know if this will work?

[sofbak]

Yes, but not as quickly or thoroughly as ER with real mineral spirits (which is NLA in ca these days).

I quit adding minspirits when the real stuff disappeared. Now for a cleaner its just atf, kerosene, and acetone. For oil/preservative its atf, kerosene, and lanoline.

[MosinVirus]

Sorry to jump in with a question.

Is it way better than other over the counter cleaners, and/or is it simply cheaper?

[SkyHawk]

I buy real mineral spirits whenever I visit NV now.

[kcstott]

CA is not the reason. It's local restrictions. I can still get mineral spirits at lowes or Home Depot any time

[sofbak]

^^^^ Where specifically are these retail outlets?

[SkyHawk]

CA is not the reason. It's local restrictions. I can still get mineral spirits at lowes or Home Depot any time

CA is the reason. Title 17 CCR 94509

https://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/title17_94509.pdf

94509(a)
Except as provided in Sections 94510 (Exemptions), 94511 (Innovative Products), 94514 (Variances), 94540 through 94555 (Alternative Control Plan), and 94567(a)(1) (Hairspray Credit Program), Title 17, California Code of Regulations, no person shall sell, supply, offer for sale, or manufacture for sale in California any consumer product which, at the time of sale or manufacture, contains volatile organic compounds in excess of the limits specified in the following Table of Standards after the specified effective dates.

It regulates everything from fabric softener to paint thinner to solvents to adhesives to windshield washer fluid, and more. The only thing that is locality dependent is washer fluid, everything else must conform to a state standard for VOC content.

You will be happy to know the nannys have also been hard at work to regulate the effectiveness of your deoderant and antiperspirant. Here for more: https://www.arb.ca.gov/consprod/regs/regs.htm

Double check what you are buying at Lowes or Home Depot, they have gotten very clever at selling you nanny-state mineral spirits without making it obvious. But they have no choice.


Crown has a whole page for CA VOC compliant products. CA is the only state where they have to do this. Notice everyone of them uses the same product name you are familiar with, using similar packaging as the free state Crown products, just followed by the word 'substitute' http://www.packserv.com/products/crown/low-voc/


Sometimes this can really jack your work up. They are using Acetone in products that don't contain it in free states. You might grab some 'paint thinner' in CA and find it ruins plastics, lacquered table tops etc where in a free state it contains no acetone and would not damage those products, just clean them.


Compare the VOC of free state odorless mineral spirits at 27.3%

https://web.chempliance.com/MSDS/OpenDoc.ashx?DocID=35333

to CA substitute mineral spirits at 2.9%

https://web.chempliance.com/MSDS/OpenDoc.ashx?DocID=38966

Also real Mineral Spirits is 100% petroleum distillates. CA is "something less" - they won't say how much to protect trade secrets. But you can infer it might be 1/10th based on the VOC.

[sofbak]

^^^^^ Thats what I thought.

"Nanny state solvents" = "odorless mineral spirits".

[SkyHawk]

^^^^^ Thats what I thought.

"Nanny state solvents" = "odorless mineral spirits".

Odorless is not necessarily nanny-state. In free states that is great stuff, 100% petroleum distillates.

LOW VOC Odorless is nanny state though.

[Scota4570]

Real turpentine is available. It will get under leading in a gun barrel. Might be a worth while addition . Naptha might work like mineral spirits.

[kcstott]

Skyhawk you need to look at CARB specific "special control regions or districts"

We've been dealing with VOC limit for a long time, this is nothing new, But the special control areas really limit what you can buy and what you can't.

In San Diego County I have no issue finding Acetone, Lacquer thiner, VM&P Naphtha, Mineral Spirits or other wise, It when you run in to these substitutes that screws you over.
The other thing is go to a real paint store, not cheepo depot, Sherwin Williams, Dunn Edwards will have the real deal that is legal to see in California on the shelf.

But again the OP might be in a special district that even further limits what can be on the shelf.

[TexasJackKin]

Sorry to jump in with a question.

Is it way better than other over the counter cleaners, and/or is it simply cheaper?

Yes......better and cheaper

[TexasJackKin]

CA is not the reason. It's local restrictions. I can still get mineral spirits at lowes or Home Depot any time

I checked McMaster-Carr, They say can not be shipped to California or Utah (for the real stuff) IDK, could be they just don't want to sort though, what part of California it would be OK to ship to. Kind of like, there are places in California, where you don't need a smog check. Just like (for now) there are places
you can't ship ammo to, and some companies won't ship to anywhere in California....

[kcstott]

I checked McMaster-Carr, They say can not be shipped to California or Utah (for the real stuff) IDK, could be they just don't want to sort though, what part of California it would be OK to ship to. Kind of like, there are places in California, where you don't need a smog check. Just like (for now) there are places
you can't ship ammo to, and some companies won't ship to anywhere in California....

Well you don't order Chemicals online, not unless you are ordering a drum. Haz mat fees kill any deal you may get.

Paint thinner, acetone and lacquer thinner are all about the same price at the box stores, $18 a gallon give or take. Haz mat will cost you, Even if it's ORM-D it will still cost extra to ship. just not as much as HazMAt.

Like I said Paint store, or a good hardware store, Not the box stores,

[kcstott]

Here's the thing though guys

You're not using your head.. Go buy Charcoal lighter fluid, Same basic stuff.