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AK Barrel population and alignment

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  • krnrspd
    Member
    • Jun 2009
    • 307

    AK Barrel population and alignment

    I just finished some AK Builds this weekend. One of the most time consuming and frustrating points was barrel population. Hoping I can get some opinions on my procedure and see if anyone can optimize my method for more speed and efficiency.

    Our parts kits came with New US Barrels that had a 90 degree gas port and slots for the lower hand guard retention cap which probably compounded the frustration. I am thankful for the hand guard slots but the gas port made it a pain in the *** to align.

    We also 3d printed out a barrel alignment tool, however, we found the tolerances of the FSBs to be very sloppy/loose from unit to unit. Usually we had a couple of mms side to side

    I ended up eye balling the final alignment of the FSB with the alignment tool, I'm sure I can adjust impacts with a front sight adjuster.

    On an AR15 I usually flip the assembled upper receiver upside down with a carry handle and FSB check alignment on a flat planed surface and usually that's good enough for me to zero the rifle at the range. If it sits flat, I know it's about golden.

    But on the AK; I don't know of a similar method other than bore sighting.

    Populating procedure:
    Assuming gas port is round and hand guard cap are indexed to each other.
    -Drew a line down the length of the barrel such that I hit the middle of the locking pin slot and the gas port
    -Pressed on RSB
    -slipped on hand guard cap
    -pressed gas block with relation to the 0 line I made 90% of the way
    -installed upper hand guard gas tube and slowly pressed it as I checked with fitment with the upper hand guard gas tube
    -removed upper hand guard gas tube
    -checked gas port was clear by using a zip tie down gas block; can't check with a drill bit since the gas port was drilled at 90 degrees instead of angled with the gas block
    -pressed front sight block on with relation to 0 line, checked alignment with imprecise alignment tool
    -used string alignment theory to kind of check my sanity
    -again used 0 line and eye balled relationship of front trunnion to RSB - pressed and prayed
    -once confident that the trunnion was properly head spaced and aligned, I drilled the barrel for the respective pins
    -punched all the pins in and checked a loose fitment to receiver
    -satisfied with alignment, I made a score in the barrel where the trunnion and the barrel met and indexing marks, so that I can accurately press the barrel on to the riveted trunnion later on
    -then punched out barrel pin
    -pressed out trunnion



    So I found a way to headspace pretty quickly, I'm sure I'm going to receive some flak but this is what I did, as I was pressing down the barrel assembly into the trunnion, once I got to about 95% of the way complete, I inserted the bolt to see how much play there was on lock up once there was only a few mms left, I loaded the go gauge into the bolt and inserted it into the trunnion and the barrel. I then very very carefully and very slowly continue to press. Gravity kept the bolt locked in place and I obsessively checked lockup until their was 0 movement, I then checked with the no go and was able to make sure that the no go would not lock up
  • #2
    ar15barrels
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Jan 2006
    • 57122

    Before pressing anything on the barrel, I measure all the journals and the parts that are getting pressed on and I re-size the journals so they are a 0.001" press fit.

    I start by installing the handgaurd cap.
    Use the top of the handguard cap as your reference to align the barrel in the trunnion.
    Once the trunnion is aligned, press it into proper headspace using a plate with a hole through it so you can press the barrel until it stops tight against a no-go gauge.
    Then remove the bolt and headspace gauge and press on the rear sight base until it aligns with the trunnion and is even with the rear upper face of the trunnion. This assures that the top cover will fit correctly.
    Now re-install the handguard cap and press on the gas block using the gas tube to determine location of gas block.
    Finally, use the ears on the rear sight base and the ears on the FSB to align the FSB on the barrel on a flat surface (just like you mentioned) before pressing it on.
    Last edited by ar15barrels; 08-22-2016, 6:25 PM.
    Randall Rausch

    AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
    Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
    Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
    Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
    Most work performed while-you-wait.

    Comment

    • #3
      G-Man WC
      In Memoriam
      • Oct 2005
      • 10991

      A very good resource is from our very own CG'er Nicoroshi.
      Proud to have built with him back in the day.
      Randall is no slouch either and always brings good advise to the table.
      -g

      If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.
      -Samuel Adams

      Comment

      • #4
        kcstott
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Nov 2011
        • 11796

        I for the most part populate just as Randal has outlined.

        Measure everything first to see if any adjustments need to be made.

        I don't draw lines, I don't use strings, I have straight edges and milling machines to verify alignment if needed.

        Aligning a gas block to a pre drilled port is easy, accurate measurements before and after pressing it on and the math don't lie
        Last edited by kcstott; 08-23-2016, 4:39 AM.

        Comment

        • #5
          LONGRANGER777
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2013
          • 581

          ar15...? Wont the headspace be loose if you only press the barrel onto the nogo gauge? Do you install the barrel pin before pressing rsb on?

          Comment

          • #6
            ar15barrels
            I need a LIFE!!
            • Jan 2006
            • 57122

            Originally posted by LONGRANGER777
            Wont the headspace be loose if you only press the barrel onto the nogo gauge?
            Do you install the barrel pin before pressing rsb on?
            I happen to have gauges in 0.001" steps between go and no-go so I press the barrel tight against a 1.255" gauge.
            A no-go is 1.257".
            You can press it tight against a no-go though too.
            You have to take a nylon hammer to get the bolt to unlock.
            If you try to lock the bolt by hand, you will find that it will NOT lockup and that the gun will fit a go gauge just fine.
            You could do the same job by using a go gauge and then putting a 0.003" shim between the bolt and gauge.

            I have a press setup that allows me to push the BARREL into the rsb, gas block and fsb without pushing against the trunion so I press everything on to the barrel and THEN do all the cross pinning.
            Last edited by ar15barrels; 08-28-2016, 5:29 PM.
            Randall Rausch

            AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
            Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
            Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
            Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
            Most work performed while-you-wait.

            Comment

            • #7
              LONGRANGER777
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2013
              • 581

              Got it. Thankyou for the info!!! Once again we can count on ar15 for help!!!

              Comment

              • #8
                ACPaulTac1022
                Junior Member
                • Jul 2012
                • 25

                Originally posted by ar15barrels
                I happen to have gauges in 0.001" steps between go and no-go so I press the barrel tight against a 1.255" gauge.
                A no-go is 1.257".
                You can press it tight against a no-go though too.
                You have to take a nylon hammer to get the bolt to unlock.
                If you try to lock the bolt by hand, you will find that it will NOT lockup and that the gun will fit a go gauge just fine.
                You could do the same job by using a go gauge and then putting a 0.003" shim between the bolt and gauge.

                I have a press setup that allows me to push the BARREL into the rsb, gas block and fsb without pushing against the trunion so I press everything on to the barrel and THEN do all the cross pinning.
                Any pics of that barrel press setup?
                BRAVOZULU

                sigpic

                Comment

                • #9
                  G-Man WC
                  In Memoriam
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 10991

                  Originally posted by ACPaulTac1022
                  Any pics of that barrel press setup?
                  Shop porn!

                  -g
                  If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.
                  -Samuel Adams

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    ACPaulTac1022
                    Junior Member
                    • Jul 2012
                    • 25

                    Originally posted by G-Man WC
                    Shop porn!

                    -g
                    +1
                    ACP
                    BRAVOZULU

                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      ar15barrels
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 57122

                      Originally posted by ACPaulTac1022
                      Any pics of that barrel press setup?
                      Nothing special.
                      Just my own incarnations of some of the stuff that akbuilder sells.
                      I make all my tooling so it threads into the press ram.
                      This allows for precise positioning of the force without any danger of parts kicking out.

                      Randall Rausch

                      AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
                      Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
                      Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
                      Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
                      Most work performed while-you-wait.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        ACPaulTac1022
                        Junior Member
                        • Jul 2012
                        • 25

                        Impressive...nice to see someone thinking, ahem....inside the box.
                        Is all that tooling for alignment and pressing?

                        ACP
                        Last edited by ACPaulTac1022; 08-30-2016, 12:40 AM.
                        BRAVOZULU

                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          ACPaulTac1022
                          Junior Member
                          • Jul 2012
                          • 25

                          i just saw the slideshow...doh
                          thank you AR for the detailed pics of your setup.

                          ACP
                          BRAVOZULU

                          sigpic

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            ar15barrels
                            I need a LIFE!!
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 57122

                            Originally posted by ACPaulTac1022
                            Impressive...nice to see someone thinking, ahem....inside the box.
                            Is all that tooling for alignment and pressing?

                            ACP
                            Oh, that's only a small part of my Ak pressing tooling, the stuff that gets used most often.
                            I have a whole 30" toolbox drawer full of specialty stuff.
                            Randall Rausch

                            AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
                            Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
                            Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
                            Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
                            Most work performed while-you-wait.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Chewbaca
                              Veteran Member
                              • Jul 2012
                              • 2686

                              Don't we all Randal

                              Comment

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